Kiesel Double Creams?

Re: Kiesel Double Creams?

DiMarzios patent only applies to 12 pole piece designs. So it's okay to sell double cream rail pickups, 24 pole, and even P-Rails can be double cream.

I have a picture somewhere on my harddrive, but I've also seen a Seymour Duncan triple cream pickup before.
 
Re: Kiesel Double Creams?

BUT WAIT!!! There's a twist!!!

c9f02c051e0094854797b5732e9b787f.jpg


These lithiums look like they have 12 poles.

https://www.kieselguitars.com/products/KL12B
 
Re: Kiesel Double Creams?

In which case I do not know. Looking closer at it though, the polepieces appear to be torx. I haven't been able to locate a copy of the legal papers associated with the trademark, but it might not apply because of the special polepieces. The trademark's "justification" is that people associate double cream with DMZ, which is why it doesn't apply to nonstandard humbucker designs. I assume these polepieces may put it in the nonstandard category, as apparently Kiesel has a patent on torx screws in humbuckers.

That's my guess anyway.
 
Re: Kiesel Double Creams?

Chistopher said:
In which case I do not know. Looking closer at it though, the polepieces appear to be torx. I haven't been able to locate a copy of the legal papers associated with the trademark, but it might not apply because of the special polepieces. The trademark's "justification" is that people associate double cream with DMZ, which is why it doesn't apply to nonstandard humbucker designs. I assume these polepieces may put it in the nonstandard category, as apparently Kiesel has a patent on torx screws in humbuckers.

That's my guess anyway.
Click to expand...
Yes, they are torx and not hex poles. And I think Kiesel might have some trademark on actually using torx in pickups now.
 
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Re: Kiesel Double Creams?

Ascension said:
Carvin / Keisel has been building pickups since the late 1940's . They have been building double cream humbuckers long before Duncan or Dimarzio existed in fact at first they were only doing cream.
Click to expand...

Bill Lawrence too. Bill taught Larry about pickups.

DiMarzio has been trying to get a design patent on a double cream X2N, but it was rejected.


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Re: Kiesel Double Creams?

It's weird that colors can be trademarked.... Dale Earnhardt racing tried to trademark his "slanted 3" some years ago... That didn't fly. I thought maybe it was the word "cream", and you could just make an offwhite color bobbin and call it biscuit, or parchment, or something like that and you'd be free and clear.
 
Re: Kiesel Double Creams?

3M owns a trademark on the color purple. Not a specific shade, but the whole damn color.
 
Re: Kiesel Double Creams?

Maybe they have to pay DiMarzio? I don't have any idea. I would think D would go after them.
 
Re: Kiesel Double Creams?

Lots of colors are trademarked, like H&R Block’s green square. It’s part of their identity.

The way to look at the DiMarzio thing is back when they started making pickups there were no real double cream bobbins. They actually made the very first one from pickguard plastic.

So every DiMarzio pickup was cream, including Strat pickups and bass pickups. If you were watching a band on TV and you saw a cream pickup it was a DiMarzio. It was very effective brand recognition.

While some Gibson pickups might have been double cream, it was actually considered white, and wasn’t something you would see because they all came with covers. The only reason they even had them was the factory that made their bobbins ran out of black!

The silly part is now the standard color for DiMarzio pickups is black. Also their trademark never applied outside the US. So in the 80s you saw lots of cream DiMarzio knockoffs from Asia and even Schaller in Germany.

But if they abandon their trademark they will lose it forever.



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Re: Kiesel Double Creams?

DavidRavenMoon said:
Are you sure? I can’t find that anywhere.

Cadbury has a trademark on purple, but only when used for chocolate. Trademarks only apply to particular products.

https://www.colormatters.com/color-and-marketing/color-branding-legal-rights


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Click to expand...

Their trademark only applies to competing products, but it covers the entirety of shades that are considered purple. You'll find on the bottom of some of their packaging "The color PURPLE is a trademark of 3M".
 
Re: Kiesel Double Creams?

Chistopher said:
Their trademark only applies to competing products, but it covers the entirety of shades that are considered purple. You'll find on the bottom of some of their packaging "The color PURPLE is a trademark of 3M".
Click to expand...

Now I found it. It’s not all shades of purple, and only for the abrasive side of sand paper:

“applicant has restricted the mark to a single, clearly defined shade of purple”

“The mark consists of a distinctive purple color as applied to the entirety of [the] rough side of the goods, specifically, a shade of purple represented by a hue angle of approximately 285° with a lightness measurement of 36 and a saturation measurement of 22
as measured by the X-Rite SP62 portable spherical spectrometer with an observer angle of 10° and with anPage 5
illuminant equal to F2 which represents cool fluorescent lighting. “

And apparently it was contested.

Prince was also trying to trademark a certain PMS shade of purple.

https://trademarks.lexroll.com/2016...oration-v-3m-company-91119166-ttab-9-14-2006/




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