Legal Issues on coping Pedals

[Smilemon]

My friend and I are looking into starting a homebrew pedal company, we were just wondering about legal issues though.

1. How much do you have to alter a circuit before you can sell it.
2. On old circuits do you have to alter it?
3. There seem to be lots of pedal clones for sale, do they pay royalties?
4. What pedals do you like and/or miss from the 60's, 70's, and so on. We might try and build a few that you guys suggest.

Smilemon

 

[Smilemon]

Re: Legal Issues on coping Pedals

Help me out guys.....

I'm trying to find something I can do to make some cash and still enjoy..

Smilemon

 

[ozzynotwood]

Re: Legal Issues on coping Pedals

My friend and I are looking into starting a homebrew pedal company, we were just wondering about legal issues though.

1. How much do you have to alter a circuit before you can sell it.
2. On old circuits do you have to alter it?
3. There seem to be lots of pedal clones for sale, do they pay royalties?
4. What pedals do you like and/or miss from the 60's, 70's, and so on. We might try and build a few that you guys suggest.

Smilemon

1. Im note sure. You would need to look into copyright law. As a reference point, there's an argument that states that MP3's are perfectly legal because during the compression process, the song is alterered by more than %10, and thats enough to allow it be an 'original' product. Altho I did hear of it when MP3 first came out, and I dont know how the law has changed since.

2. See answer 1 and maybe find urself a uni student studying copyright law? I wish I could answer that one for you.

3. I doubt it, PRS dont pay anything to Gibson for their Singlecut design.

4. I was born in '83. But I do like real, organic pedals, none of this modelling digital crap with speaker simulated outs. Only make pedals that dont needed a degree in C++ to produce tone.

I would really like to hear some prototypes of your pedal ideas. Keep us updated dude, goodluck!.

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: Legal Issues on coping Pedals

1. How much do you have to alter a circuit before you can sell it.
2. On old circuits do you have to alter it?

Circuits do not retain any sense of copyright or trademark. This is why folks like Scott can make amps exactly like the originals without it being a legal issue. Same why amp kit makers can sell them.

Where you WILL get into trouble will be with names and looks. If it looks like another pedal then it's going to be an issue. Behringer got into hot water recently when they copied the circuit of some well known pedals AND put them out with the colors and much of the text and style looking like the original.

3. There seem to be lots of pedal clones for sale, do they pay royalties?

See above. If you can build it and put it together and not confuse the end user as to whether it's the real-deal on sight you're in the free and clear. The basis for Gibsons lawsuit was that the Singlecut LOOKED like a Les Paul.

4. What pedals do you like and/or miss from the 60's, 70's, and so on. We might try and build a few that you guys suggest.

The problem is that there are so many small botique companies making great pedals rght now that I think alot of the market is saturated to a great degree. If you want it, it's out there, and the price points don't put them out of reach. Even the ugliest sounding pedals known to mankind have either been cloned by a botique company or reissued, the Fender Blender springs immediately to mind.

 

[Smilemon]

Re: Legal Issues on coping Pedals

I think i can keep prices down, at least at the local level, for just the parts to build a Range Master, with a germanium transistor... the price is about 15 bucks, maby about 30 with the case and everything. I see copies selling for about 110 dollars and up. Basic fuzz pedals are even cheaper to build, with true bypass and everything, i guess it gets more expensive when you factor in the labor but im a young kid, the labor is almost as much fun as playing on the pedal.

Thanks for the input, when i build some ill let the forum know right away.

Smilemon

 

[baritone]

Re: Legal Issues on coping Pedals

The designs of famous pedals, i.e., Tube Screamer clones, Ross Comp clones, are considered to be public domain. Anyone is free to build it for $20 and sell it for $150. I'm not saying that's your plan, but that is what many boutique manufacturers do. If I could recommend a pedal to build, it would be a parametric equalizer that stretches from 20Hz to 20kHz, but I am not sure if there is much demand for something like this.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Legal Issues on coping Pedals

I think i can keep prices down, at least at the local level, for just the parts to build a Range Master, with a germanium transistor... the price is about 15 bucks, maby about 30 with the case and everything. I see copies selling for about 110 dollars and up. Basic fuzz pedals are even cheaper to build, with true bypass and everything, i guess it gets more expensive when you factor in the labor but im a young kid, the labor is almost as much fun as playing on the pedal.

Thanks for the input, when i build some ill let the forum know right away.

Smilemon

Making a guitar effects pedal is not cheap . . . I think that when you start sourcing out the parts (unless you decide to buy everything wholesale and make thousands of pedal copies) you'll find a lot of hidden costs (like having 1 in three of those germanium diodes being shot). Add to that the cost of a good enclosure, a proper paint job, the initial cost of getting a soldering iron/multimeter, nice looking knobs, DPDT switch . . . all of a sudden you start to see where the extra prices come from. Don't get me wrong, it's a lot of fun to build and mod your stuff . . . but it's definitely not much of a money saver. . .

 

[ErikH]

Re: Legal Issues on coping Pedals

I'll tell you this right now, you will not get rich selling pedals. The market is so saturated it's insane.

How will you support problems that arise?
Do you know enough about basic electronics to fix them?
Do you know how to measure part values, like a Ge Transistors Hfe leakage?
Do you have the time to pour in to making it "right"? I'm not talking just plug-n-play the parts, I'm talking neat wiring, sturdy paint jobs, quality parts (this is a big cost factor right there).
Are you willing to buy parts in excess quantities to keep costs low? (the more you buy of a part, the less per unit cost).
Do you have the resources to make your own quality PCBs and do you know how to make them?
Will your mom let you use her tupperware with ferric chloride to etch the PCBs in?

My suggesstion, if this is just a wild brain storm idea that you and your buddy came up with while doing "color by number" circuits (I call pre-made and etched kits color-by-number because there is no real learning about the circuit), don't even bother yet. Learn more about basic electronics, what happens in the circuit, be able to troubleshoot things easily and be willing to pour in the time to making them. It takes a while to make these things and to do it right, it'll take more than just an afternoon.

Go to www.diystompboxes.com and search there for this topic. It has been brought up a ton of times, as well as discussions of selling your own builds. Sorry if this discourages you, but that is how it goes.

 

[Smilemon]

Re: Legal Issues on coping Pedals

Will your mom let you use her tupperware with ferric chloride to etch the PCBs in?

Probably, i have been using her fancy bowls and stuff to hold parts. I have a friend who works with heating systems and stuff, he can get cases made for me by entering in a few numbers on his computer. I was thinking of hand painting them. Not very efficiant but then they all look different.

I probably wont build very many and im only planning to sell them at a few shops in town and maby online.

Its more for the experiance than the money.

Smilemon

 

[ErikH]

Re: Legal Issues on coping Pedals

Then make sure she knows that the container could never be used for food again. I wouldn't even want to risk eating food out of a container used for that even after a good washing. Ferric Chloride is very dangerous stuff. It isn't stuff that you can just dump down the drain when you're done either, unless you like seeing a plumber often.

What kind of cases? Hammond enclosures and the Taiwanese counterparts are the way to go. Readily available, easy to work with. If he can get enlosures cheaper than either of those, cool. If not, don't bother.

 

[Smilemon]

Re: Legal Issues on coping Pedals

Probably pretty cheap, he makes heating ducts and stuff. My dad sometimes gets some metalwork done from him, i dont think hes ever charged us. I emailed him and i think i can get a few free, after that though i might have to pay.

Smilemon

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Legal Issues on coping Pedals

A rangemaster would be cool. A simple one knob delay like you find in cheap little practice amps would be cool too.

Best of luck man!

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Legal Issues on coping Pedals

If you make a good SUPERFUZZ copy everybody who rocks will pay you for one.

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