Les Paul players...do you do this?

[JeffB]

Really it works for any 2 vol. 2 humbucker setup, 335s,.etc...but.

Back when I was a teenager a guitar mentor showed me a "trick" with the volume control, and old school single channel amps... Essentially you set the guitar up for 3 sounds. You have your bridge pickup full blast, and your neck pickup cracked open just a bit..2..maybe 3, and then you use the middle switch position for the majority of your crunch chunking and alot of lead work, your neck alone for clean stuff, and the bridge alone for the leads that you need the most gain and bite to cut through. And there is only a little perceived volume disparity at stage volumes switching from one to the other.

It is similar to jumping inputs on a 4 hole marshall. Adding beef,without losing too much clarity and bite.

At the time I was trying so hard to mimic Peter Frampton and Brian Robertson and could not figure out how they got their bridge pups to sound so beefy (especially robbo and his minibuckers).. then i figured out this is what they were doing when I saw some video. And then I satrted to watch for it, and realized so did young M. Schenker, and Ted Nugent, Joe Perry, Jimmy Page, Kerry Livgren, and a whole lot of other dudes I admire from back in the 70s. Recenly, through the wonders of youtube, I realized alex lifeson , whom I am currently drawing inspiration from also did the same thing BITD before he switched over to strats..especially with his 335 , and a bit less so with his 355....(working man...perfect example of this on the 335)

I had pretty much stopped doing this when strats and teles took over my life and I forgot about it. Now that I am back to gibby style I forgot how much I love this setup and have missed my 2v/2t!

So, am I alone here on the forum? Any of you folks do that? Any other big names do this? I noticed that as the guys I mentioned above drifted away into the 80s and gear changed,they stopped doing this. Higher output pickups, channel switching amps and rack gear I guess eliminated the need (and lower output pups just seem to work far better for this anyway). And likely big changes in style/music made it less needed as well.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

When I had the SG Classic and gigged with it, I found myself setting it up in a similar fashion for most of the night. There were the occasional songs where I needed the neck up full as well but for the most part, having it rolled back was how it was set. I'm liking the setup on the 335 but being a Strat player firstly and mostly, it takes some getting used to.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

Brian Robertson of Thin Lizzy used regular sized humbuckers. It was Scott Gorham who consistently favoured the LP Deluxe with its mini humbuckers.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

Brian Robertson of Thin Lizzy used regular sized humbuckers. It was Scott Gorham who consistently favoured the LP Deluxe with its mini humbuckers.

Do your homework. He only used full size buckers on his black custom, which he hated, and only used on the last tour. He used a goldtop P90 on the first album, and all of the classic albums were recorded with a clownburst deluxe, both he and scott got them from Gibson at the same time. On tour in the states in 78 he found a pair of PAFs from a 59 les paul and had the deluxe routed for them. Most of L&D the ALBUM is his deluxe. However the video concert is the black custom and only a few tracks from the video concert L&D are actually on the live album....most of those tracks were recorded in the states in 77 and 78 with the deluxe before it was routed.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

When I had the SG Classic and gigged with it, I found myself setting it up in a similar fashion for most of the night. There were the occasional songs where I needed the neck up full as well but for the most part, having it rolled back was how it was set. I'm liking the setup on the 335 but being a Strat player firstly and mostly, it takes some getting used to.

Yeah. Getting used to it again is a bit strange, if you never really did that for a long time (because you are a strat guy mostly0 it would probably be weird. But I am finding all the cool sounds again...things that are just not there with one volume and tone.

 

[brunogio]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

I never have done this but it makes a lot of sense given the independent vols on the two pups. I may have to try it.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

I tried it couldnt get it to work for me. Using the middle slot for the majority of my playing drove me nuts didnt dig the tone of it. Usually I wind up just shutting off the neck volume and using it as a mute then cracking it open for clean stuff.

 

[Mr 9finger]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

I did not know that, but damit, I'm going to try it!

 

[JeffB]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

Keep in mind hot midrangey pickups will yield poor results ...so will super high gain (my standards...so something like a 2205/2210 full blast or gainier). All these guys were playing PAFs, PAT#s, minis, and Ttops through old NMV Marshalls (or Fender Dual Showmans/Twins/Deluxes in the Nuge's case)

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

For more than 10 years I've mainly kept the switch in the middle and used the volume controls to change the sound. I flip to bridge pup only when I need a lot of pure bite. I rarely dime either volume. Bridge is usually on 7-9 and neck on 3. To get clean often I just roll the bridge to 3. I rarely use neck alone, but sometimes.

 

[Mr 9finger]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

Keep in mind hot midrangey pickups will yield poor results ...so will super high gain (my standards...so something like a 2205/2210 full blast or gainier). All these guys were playing PAFs, PAT#s, minis, and Ttops through old NMV Marshalls (or Fender Dual Showmans/Twins/Deluxes in the Nuge's case)

I think the highest output pickup I have in my Gibson's is the 498T. I don't know the specs on it, but to my ears, it's not very hot. Doesn't really matter anyway. My studio is getting a set of whole lotta hummers and my LPJ is getting a Slash/A2P mix. My 1 guitar that this would probably work the best in is Pearly Gates loaded Dean EVO, but it's only got 1vol/1tone. Come to think of it, I really don't like higher output pickups in Gibby style setups. I know I've tried them in the past, but I always gravitate to the lower output pickups for some reason. Shred sticks are a different story though

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

I dont do this, But I am darn sure gonna give it a try! Thanks!

 

[Simon_F]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

Brian Robertson of Thin Lizzy used regular sized humbuckers. It was Scott Gorham who consistently favoured the LP Deluxe with its mini humbuckers.

Robbo used a tobacco sunburst Deluxe with mini humbuckers up until at least late 1976. You can see it in the '75 Live at Dublin Stadium video (Fighting tour). On his "Still in Love With Blues" tuition video he claims he used it stock up until the Johnny The Fox album then had the pickups swapped for a pair of old PAFs. He didn't start using the black LP Custom until later. I saw Lizzy on the Johnny The Fox and Bad Reputation tours and don't recall seeing the Custom.

2:40 :naughty:

 

[JeffB]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

Robbo used a tobacco sunburst Deluxe with mini humbuckers up until at least late 1976. You can see it in the '75 Live at Dublin Stadium video (Fighting tour). On his "Still in Love With Blues" tuition video he claims he used it stock up until the Johnny The Fox album then had the pickups swapped for a pair of old PAFs. He didn't start using the black LP Custom until later. I saw Lizzy on the Johnny The Fox and Bad Reputation tours and don't recall seeing the Custom.

was that thing Tobacco? it looks CSB in alot of vids, just not as blatant as Scotts. Looks more like an old 50s cherryburst.

At least for part of the Bad Rep tour it still had the minis, Simon. When they did Midnight Special TV show here in the States he still had the minis in it (vid is on yootoob somewhere). Would the North American leg been post UK?

 

[JeffB]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

Ya know...Robbo may have just done the Les Paul Custom thing for the L&D vid and album photos, like Alex Lifeson used that Tobacco Sunburst Les Paul Standard with pyramids pickups for their live album "All the Worlds a Stage". By his own admission he hardly ever played that guitar on tour.... he used it as a practice guitar for backstage warmup the majority of the time or as abackup. Maybe he thought it would look cooler? He was even interviewed a year later on the AFTK tour and talked about how much he did not like Les Pauls. Its on yootoob somewhere too.

Robbo has made it very clear he hated the way that Custom sounded and felt. And I am pretty positive he did not use it with Wild Horses or Motorhead after Lizzy. He was using the routed deluxe. Do you recall Simon?

Guitar players are weird.

 

[Simon_F]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

was that thing Tobacco? it looks CSB in alot of vids, just not as blatant as Scotts. Looks more like an old 50s cherryburst.

At least for part of the Bad Rep tour it still had the minis, Simon. When they did Midnight Special TV show here in the States he still had the minis in it (vid is on yootoob somewhere). Would the North American leg been post UK?

I'm pretty sure it's a tobacco, or at least a brown ("vintage"?), sunburst. I forget what the name of that finish was in the early 70s. It's the same guitar he's used for years (before and after the black Custom). It's in the tuition video (with the PAFs) and he talks about its history at some length. I think you're right and it did still have the minis on the Bad Rep tour. Robbo's recollection of the pickup swap being around the time of Johnny The Fox may well have been adjusted by whisky and powder

Here's the section where he talks about the guitar (sound out of sync in this clip). See 5:10...

 

[Simon_F]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

BTW, I read somewhere that his old Deluxe got stolen recently! :yell: Here's a clip of Robbo from 2012 and he's playing a LP Classic....

 

[Simon_F]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

Sorry Jeff, all this Robbo talk is way off topic! To get back to your original question, I don't do it exactly like that but I have always exploited the two volume controls by setting them differently and switching between neck and bridge to go from clean to crunch and vice versa. It's always a challenge for me swapping to the Tele or Strat because I'm so used to having the two volumes. Definitely gonna try it as you suggest.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

BTW, I read somewhere that his old Deluxe got stolen recently! :yell: Here's a clip of Robbo from 2012 and he's playing a LP Classic....

That sux. wow. That REALLY sux. That guitar was a monster.

here is the Midnight Special show with minis. Yeah, as boozed up as he was from 74 until...well, yesterday, I trust actual footage vs. his memory

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Les Paul players...do you do this?

I do not, I flip pickups and twist knobs the whole time I'm playing truth be told.

However, Greg Martin does what you're talking about with a 58 LP and a 100 watt Plexi...he calls it "Hillbilly Channel Switching"!