Les Paul style wiring

GoDrex

GoDrex

Riffologist Extraordinaire
2 volumes, 2 tones, 3 way switch.

What style of wiring is your favorite?

The more I look into it, the more different ways I'm finding to do this.

There's the method that on this site.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2v_2t_3w

then there are these:

modern
lp_wiring_modern.gif

Modern Wiring (above)
Pro - Because the tone controls receive their signal from the input of the volume pot, they are effectively connected directly to the pickup. Consequently, the volume pots' positions have no effect on the operation of the tone controls, which operate completely independently of the volume controls.
Con - The tone changes as you roll down the volume pot - there is some treble roll-off in addition to the volume roll-off. This doesn't bother some people at all, while it drives others crazy.
Click to expand...
and vintage
lp_wiring_vintage.gif

Vintage Wiring (above)
Pro - When you roll off the volume control, you don't have a corresponding treble roll-off, the tone stays consistent.
Con - The tone and volume controls are interactive, because the tone controls receive their signal from the output of the volume pots (rather than the inputs). Because the position of the volume pot affects the tone control, the tone control's effect is inconsistent. As an example, if you like the tone control set at 5 with the volume all the way up, then this may change as soon as you roll the volume pot down some.
Click to expand...

I ordered some pots from Wymore and their schematic looks different from these two - though it looks the same to me as the SD version. They call it "modified standard" - so what are the characteristics of that style?
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

Whoever wrote those notes is an idiot.

Pro - When you roll off the volume control, you don't have a corresponding treble roll-off, the tone stays consistent.
Click to expand...

No, you have double treble rolloff, the tone stay anti-consistent. As you roll down volume you lose even more treble than before. It is like turning down volume and tone at the same time. Some want that, it can sound better than just rolling off volume alone.

The person mixes it up with treble bleed mods which should actually be called anti-bleed mods. They lift highs as you roll down volume. But they don't arrive at the same sound either since one is a simple filter and the other is influencing the amplitude of the resonance peak only.
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

Another problem is that the graphics seem to imply that it might make a difference between the cap goes to the middle or the outer lug on the tone pot, which isn't the case.
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

For my LP, I wire the pickup hot wire to the wiper (center) terminal of the volume pot. The volume controls function more independently that way.
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

mudpuppy said:
For my LP, I wire the pickup hot wire to the wiper (center) terminal of the volume pot. The volume controls function more independently that way.
Click to expand...

They are more independent but as you roll down the volume pots they cause an even stronger loss of resonance peak that way.
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

For a HB LP, the Jimmy Page system is my hands down preference, 4 push-pulls and independent volumes. I get coil cuts, phase, & series/parallel. Two of the best tones are the PU's linked in series and out-of-phase, and the PU's linked in series with the neck in coil cut/bridge in HB.
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

All I know is I tried the vintage style wiring on my LP and when I roll the bridge volume off to maybe 8 or so, I can eq the amp for the neck pickup and the bridge won't sound so cutting. My bridge pickup is louder than my neck one anyways, so it balances volume-wise as well.

I never felt a need for independent volume controls.

I've always wanted to try the Page wiring but it looks like a good bit of work, and I don't even know if I'd like it or not.
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

FuseG4 said:
All I know is I tried the vintage style wiring on my LP and when I roll the bridge volume off to maybe 8 or so, I can eq the amp for the neck pickup and the bridge won't sound so cutting. My bridge pickup is louder than my neck one anyways, so it balances volume-wise as well.

I never felt a need for independent volume controls.

I've always wanted to try the Page wiring but it looks like a good bit of work, and I don't even know if I'd like it or not.
Click to expand...

you know, if you didn't like it you could always just never pull the knobs up;)

btw there are better wirings out there than just the JP wiring scheme, including(but not limited to) the artie/page wiring.
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

I have the page wiring, but it's always given me trouble with the 3 way switch. Usually what happens is I'll be on the bridge pickup and I'll switch to the neck and I'll get no sound. Then I have to flip it back and forth to get it to come on. The the reverse happens. Otherwise I really like it, but I don't really use the options that much. I've changed the switch and it doesn't help. I can't figure out what the problem is.
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

I tend to use what you're calling "vintage" wiring except I connect the cap to the middle terminal of the tone pot and ground the third terminal. That's the way I learned to do 50's style wiring.

I do hear that wiring as being brighter than what you're calling "modern" wiring and I do hear less treble loss when I turn down the volume control.

I'm starting to go back to connecting the tone control to the input of the volume control for a warmer sound. The drawback is more treble loss when I turn the volume control down.

It's just not a perfect world - is it? :lmao:

BTW, opinions vary. Here's a discussion about this: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-224610.html
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

GoDrex said:
I have the page wiring, but it's always given me trouble with the 3 way switch. Usually what happens is I'll be on the bridge pickup and I'll switch to the neck and I'll get no sound. Then I have to flip it back and forth to get it to come on. The the reverse happens. Otherwise I really like it, but I don't really use the options that much. I've changed the switch and it doesn't help. I can't figure out what the problem is.
Click to expand...

Are you using the Gibson schematic with a 3-way with 4 terminals? I used that one thanks to Robert's suggestion and the switching is all flawless.

However, it's setup with the modern wiring, and I liked the vintage wiring better (the way it was before). For some reason I haven't switched it, I just live with it.

What's Artie's mid to the Page wiring?
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

I cannot stand the modern wiring method .... I think that method ruins the tone of the guitar while the volume is set to ANYTHING but full blast ....

If you NEVER use the volume on anything other than 10 .... go with the modern .....

otherwise, vintage

hell, I almost sent back a set of Antiquity HB's because they sounded like mud at low volume until I figured out it was the wiring set-up
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

Seth Lover FAN said:
I cannot stand the modern wiring method .... I think that method ruins the tone of the guitar while the volume is set to ANYTHING but full blast ....

If you NEVER use the volume on anything other than 10 .... go with the modern .....

otherwise, vintage

hell, I almost sent back a set of Antiquity HB's because they sounded like mud at low volume until I figured out it was the wiring set-up
Click to expand...

And then there are some people who swear they hear no difference between the two methods of connecting the tone control! I'm like you - I do hear a big difference.

All Hamer guitars with three controls (vol/vol/tone) use the vintage method of connecting the tone control, BTW. Hamer connects it to the output jack but that's the exact same effect as connecting the tone control to the middle terminal (output) of the volume control because the output of the volume controls go to the selector switch and then right to the output jack.

What we're doing with the tone control is connecting it before the volume control with the "modern" method and after the volume control with the "vintage" method.

I like some things about doing it either way.
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

GoDrex said:
I have the page wiring, but it's always given me trouble with the 3 way switch. Usually what happens is I'll be on the bridge pickup and I'll switch to the neck and I'll get no sound. Then I have to flip it back and forth to get it to come on. The the reverse happens. Otherwise I really like it, but I don't really use the options that much. I've changed the switch and it doesn't help. I can't figure out what the problem is.
Click to expand...

You should only get no volume when the neck tone knob is up (PU's linked in series) and the toggle is in the bridge position. Check your wiring.
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

Like I said it comes and goes. I haven't been able to figure out why.
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

PFDarkside said:
Are you using the Gibson schematic with a 3-way with 4 terminals? I used that one thanks to Robert's suggestion and the switching is all flawless.

However, it's setup with the modern wiring, and I liked the vintage wiring better (the way it was before). For some reason I haven't switched it, I just live with it.

What's Artie's mid to the Page wiring?
Click to expand...

artie/page wiring is just putting both coil cuts on one push pull, and putting artie's coil swap setup on the other push/pull. coil swap doesn't play nice with the other switches, but it's a very cool option; coil swap is like a stronger, smoother coil cut without the hum.
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

blueman335 said:
That a sign of a loose connection on a lug. You only have about 30 connections to check!
Click to expand...

well I've checked and couldn't find any thing loose... it's something to do with the switch as I move the switch up and down it will come an go.

doesn't matter because I'm reverting to a simpler wiring set up - that's why I started this thread.


What the deal with the diagram here on the Seymour Duncan site? What is that considered? What are it's characteristics?

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2v_2t_3w
 
Re: Les Paul style wiring

Can't remember what I used to have but I've since switched to having my tones push-pull to split the coils. One day I might get the energy to get that JP wiring going, but for now it's all good.
 
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