Les Paul

[curiousparent]

Hi

My son owns a Les Paul Custom. It plays well in the single pick up positions.
In the middle switch position it plays the neck pick up and the bridge pick up is very faint.

I have tried replacing the 3 way switch - no difference!

Anyone got any suggestions please?

Thanks.


PS this is the birhday of our National Poet Robert Burns.

To Money he wrote in the 1700's

Wha worth thy power though cursed leaf,
Fell source of aw my woe and grief,
For lack o' thee I lost my lass,
For lack o' thee I scrimp my glass,

nothing changes

 

[Jazz Rock]

Re: Les Paul

Scotland rules !

Apart from this... Sorry I have no idea what the problem could be. But wait a wee bit and someone will have the solution to your problem.

 

[Bezmotivnik]

Re: Les Paul

My son owns a Les Paul Custom. It plays well in the single pick up positions.
In the middle switch position it plays the neck pick up and the bridge pick up is very faint.

That would depend on what "very faint" means; some perceived volume loss is 100% normal in center position, due to the polarity of the pickup wiring.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Les Paul

My first guess is that the pickups are wired out of phase. However, this shouldn't result in a huge drop in volume, just a difference in tone and a small volume drop.

I'm not the wiring expert, so I'll wait for someone else to confirm.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Les Paul

My first guess is that the pickups are wired out of phase. However, this shouldn't result in a huge drop in volume, just a difference in tone and a small volume drop.

That is the first thing I would check. Its an easy fix if that is the problem, just switch the hot and ground wire on one of the pickups (where its wired to the pot, not on the pickup itself)

 

[Aceman]

Re: Les Paul

+1 - sounds like a simple wire swap should fix it. The real interesting (and sad) thing here: LP Custom wired wrong!!!! Assuming it was new/un-modded.

Border Clans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[curiousparent]

Re: Les Paul

Hi

I have looked at every wiring diagram I can find. Why is it there is never one that exactly matches the guitar you own?

This Custom is a 1980.

I have played it in every possible mode of volume on/off /, tone on/off.

Is it possible that in the Middle Toggle position a Gibson requires the Bridge Pick Up to have some volume turned on and where there is no volume turned on this will near knock out the neck pick up?

What would I be doing if we did not a guitarist in the house who has me to watch over his guitars. I'd be down the pub - something not right here mmmmmmm!

 

[MikeS]

Re: Les Paul

That is the first thing I would check. Its an easy fix if that is the problem, just switch the hot and ground wire on one of the pickups (where its wired to the pot, not on the pickup itself)

Not so easy with single conductor wiring :reporter: Of course, that assumes we're talking about original pickups and wiring.

My first question would involve the percieved volume output of both the neck and bridge position. Does the neck position sound louder than the bridge position? Tweaking the height of the pickups in the rings could better balance the guitar in all three positions.

If the pickups really were out of phase with eachother, the result wouldn't be that the neck greatly over powers the bridge in the middle position. There'd be hum and the tone would be very thin sounding (which could be perceived as quieter, but the overall tone would be quieter, not just one pickup).

Then again, I've always heard more neck pickup than bridge pickup in the middle position of HH setups, and I think a lot of that has to do with the neck position simple picking up a greater amount of string vibration than the bridge pickup.

 

[Sprinter]

Re: Les Paul

A bad pot could also cause your problem.

Sprinter

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Les Paul

Not so easy with single conductor wiring :reporter: Of course, that assumes we're talking about original pickups and wiring.

Are you saying that Gibson pickups don't have a ground wire?

I don't understand ?????

I wouldn't think it would be a pot, since you only change the pickup selector switch position to cause the problem. It could, perhaps, be a bad or miswired switch?? Some of those switch terminals have a wire/solder bridge across them and it that was broken or badly done.... ???

Still sound like an out of phase wiring problem to me.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Les Paul

Is it maybe pup height? check to see how far away from the strings the pups are when the strings are held down at the 22nd fret. Ok - that was just dumb...but my pub has an internet connection!

 

[firebirdV]

Re: Les Paul

Is it possible that in the Middle Toggle position a Gibson requires the Bridge Pick Up to have some volume turned on and where there is no volume turned on this will near knock out the neck pick up?

Yes, you need to have each pickup on to some degree in order for the middle position to have sound (AFAIK).

 

[MikeS]

Re: Les Paul

Are you saying that Gibson pickups don't have a ground wire?

I don't understand ?????

I wouldn't think it would be a pot, since you only change the pickup selector switch position to cause the problem. It could, perhaps, be a bad or miswired switch?? Some of those switch terminals have a wire/solder bridge across them and it that was broken or badly done.... ???

Still sound like an out of phase wiring problem to me.

"Single conductor" is an insulated "hot wire" inside a braided metal sheath that acts as the ground. The braids get soldered to ground while the "hot" goes to the volume pot.

Just curious... are the pickup's hot leads soldered to the middle or outside lug of their respective volume pots? I doubt this would be the cause of the issue, but switching the wires so that the wire going to the switch is on the outside lug (where the pickup hot was) and moving the pickup hot and wire to tone to the middle lug (where the wire to switch used to be) gives you independent volume control in the middle position. Probably has nothing to do with the problem, but does add a little more versatility to the Les Paul wiring.

My absolute first guess is still an issue with the switch or wiring around the switch. My second guess is a balance issue that is solved with the height of the pickups being adjusted.

Of course, if these are 4 conductor pickups, they very easily could be out of phase in the middle position and I could have typed all that for nothing. :laugh2: I still don't think out of phase would lead to the neck overpowering the bridge in the middle position, but not having heard it myself it's tough to say.

 

[MikeS]

Re: Les Paul

Yes, you need to have each pickup on to some degree in order for the middle position to have sound (AFAIK).

Right, in stock LP wiring, both volume pots act as master volumes in the middle position. Turning either one down bleeds the signal to ground and kills the whole signal. Swapping the leads as I described gives you independent control of the pickups.

 

[midnite_man]

Re: Les Paul

Are you saying that Gibson pickups don't have a ground wire?

I don't understand ?????

I wouldn't think it would be a pot, since you only change the pickup selector switch position to cause the problem. It could, perhaps, be a bad or miswired switch?? Some of those switch terminals have a wire/solder bridge across them and it that was broken or badly done.... ???

Still sound like an out of phase wiring problem to me.

Some humbucker pickups have wire mesh wrapped around the only wire lead coming out of the pup, or so it seems....when actually the wire mesh is actually the ground wire. Part of that mesh needs to be unwrapped from the main lead and twisted together to form a ground lead to be soldered as a ground contact.
I'm not positive but I think I remember doing that with a single-lead '59 I had once.

Whoops, I see MikeS already covered this point! My bad.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Les Paul

Some humbucker pickups have wire mesh wrapped around the only wire lead coming out of the pup, or so it seems....when actually the wire mesh is actually the ground wire. Part of that mesh needs to be unwrapped from the main lead and twisted together to form a ground lead to be soldered as a ground contact.

Doh! I swear, sometimes I think I may be brain damaged. Its been so long since I installed my Seth Lovers and 59's that I forgot about the one-lead/braided wire thing. I've installed nothing but 4-conductor and single coils for so long, I've forgot how humbuckers are SUPPOSED to be made. I think I need to buy a set of antiquities to remind myself.