Let's talk caps for a min?
- Thread starter telerifik
- Start date
tone4days
Heel Whacker
Re: Let's talk caps for a min?
i think the definitive posting about caps was made by lew after his a/b test between orange drops and the hovland (sp?) oil caps .. iirc, he heard absolutely no difference ... and orange drops cost less than 1/10th of the oils, right? ... i replaced a crummy old ceramic when i did my overhaul and definitely heard an improvement
cheers
t4d
i think the definitive posting about caps was made by lew after his a/b test between orange drops and the hovland (sp?) oil caps .. iirc, he heard absolutely no difference ... and orange drops cost less than 1/10th of the oils, right? ... i replaced a crummy old ceramic when i did my overhaul and definitely heard an improvement
cheers
t4d
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Let's talk caps for a min?
Some people swear they hear a diff between Sprague Orange Drops, Hovlands, Mallory 150, etc. I might be able to hear a diff in my amps, but I cannot hear a big diff in my guitars. I installed a push/pull tone pot that lets me switch between differant caps of the same .02 value but from differant manufacturers in one of my Strats...the one with Duncan Antiquitys. I honestly could not hear much of a difference...if there is a diff it is so slight as to be unimportant, IMO. In a guitar, the output of the cap goes to ground so your highs that are bled out of the circuit when you turn the tone control down go back to the planet Earth...never to be heard again. ( At least not in the same form! ) Those who swear that changing from an Orange Drop to a Hovland or a Mallory 150 makes a big diff are probably fooling themselves, IMO. I think it is impossible to know unless you do the test I did where you can change from one style of cap to another instantaneously. Changing them with alligator clips and the like takes to long. Lew
Some people swear they hear a diff between Sprague Orange Drops, Hovlands, Mallory 150, etc. I might be able to hear a diff in my amps, but I cannot hear a big diff in my guitars. I installed a push/pull tone pot that lets me switch between differant caps of the same .02 value but from differant manufacturers in one of my Strats...the one with Duncan Antiquitys. I honestly could not hear much of a difference...if there is a diff it is so slight as to be unimportant, IMO. In a guitar, the output of the cap goes to ground so your highs that are bled out of the circuit when you turn the tone control down go back to the planet Earth...never to be heard again. ( At least not in the same form! ) Those who swear that changing from an Orange Drop to a Hovland or a Mallory 150 makes a big diff are probably fooling themselves, IMO. I think it is impossible to know unless you do the test I did where you can change from one style of cap to another instantaneously. Changing them with alligator clips and the like takes to long. Lew
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Let's talk caps for a min?
Just so's you know: I use Orange Drops too. At least in my guitars. I like the way they look and they are high quality caps. I always use high quality caps and not ceramic disc caps...just so I know I am covered. (Just in case it does make a diff...even if I can't hear it!) Lew
Just so's you know: I use Orange Drops too. At least in my guitars. I like the way they look and they are high quality caps. I always use high quality caps and not ceramic disc caps...just so I know I am covered. (Just in case it does make a diff...even if I can't hear it!) Lew
dr.barlo
New member
Re: Let's talk caps for a min?
I tried Hovlands, Spragues, Jensens, did not hear much of a difference. After Lew's initial post I tried his test on my tele, and on my ant HB neck I got the same results. No changes perceived. Am not getting any paper'n oil caps anymore, wasted enough money on them, orange drops are just fine.
0.022 is my fav value as well.
B
I tried Hovlands, Spragues, Jensens, did not hear much of a difference. After Lew's initial post I tried his test on my tele, and on my ant HB neck I got the same results. No changes perceived. Am not getting any paper'n oil caps anymore, wasted enough money on them, orange drops are just fine.
0.022 is my fav value as well.
B
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STRATDELUXER97
Stratoblaster Tone Meister
Re: Let's talk caps for a min?
Like Lew and Doc,I've done theses exact same tests with same values and different brand caps and I don't hear the differences..I Like the CDE,Xicon,or Orange Drops in my guitars also that I get from www.mouser.com If you were to talk caps in amps,then I'd agree I hear tonal differences between different brand caps...You'll never go wrong with orange drops in anything really...They're great caps,they look cool,and they're reasonbly priced..If you change values,then you'll start to hear differences..
John
dr.barlo said:
Like Lew and Doc,I've done theses exact same tests with same values and different brand caps and I don't hear the differences..I Like the CDE,Xicon,or Orange Drops in my guitars also that I get from www.mouser.com If you were to talk caps in amps,then I'd agree I hear tonal differences between different brand caps...You'll never go wrong with orange drops in anything really...They're great caps,they look cool,and they're reasonbly priced..If you change values,then you'll start to hear differences..
John
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Let's talk caps for a min?
Thanks guys! I'm glad I'm not the only one who's tried the push/pull pot test.
Thanks for the feedback.
Lew
Thanks guys! I'm glad I'm not the only one who's tried the push/pull pot test.
Thanks for the feedback.
Lew
STRATDELUXER97
Stratoblaster Tone Meister
Re: Let's talk caps for a min?
Lew....Everyone knows you are the tone guru buddy!
So Lew....Did you send them pedals and the Fralin out yet? I'm so excited! :dance: You know how much I trust your ears.. :wink:
John
Lewguitar said:
Lew....Everyone knows you are the tone guru buddy!
So Lew....Did you send them pedals and the Fralin out yet? I'm so excited! :dance: You know how much I trust your ears.. :wink: John
Oldslowhand
New member
Re: Let's talk caps for a min?
Just to get this clear can you hear the differce between orange drops and ceramic caps or are we talking about any type of cap?
Just to get this clear can you hear the differce between orange drops and ceramic caps or are we talking about any type of cap?
STRATDELUXER97
Stratoblaster Tone Meister
Re: Let's talk caps for a min?
I Just don't care for ceramic caps in my guitars and always use Poly caps like the Orange Drops,Xicon,or CDE Cornel Dublier I get from Mouser...I'll use ceramic as a treble bleed cap but not as a tone cap...
John
Oldslowhand said:
I Just don't care for ceramic caps in my guitars and always use Poly caps like the Orange Drops,Xicon,or CDE Cornel Dublier I get from Mouser...I'll use ceramic as a treble bleed cap but not as a tone cap...
John
John Wymore
New member
Re: Let's talk caps for a min?
I pretty much agree with all the posts made here so far. In theory the Hovlands are a better quality cap but when put into a passive guitar circuit the differences become inaudible for the most part. As Lew stated, I also use Orange Drops over ceramics just for quality reasons. At $ .080 each it's just kind of a no brainer upgrade.
There are plenty of folks over at the LP forum that will dispute this, but I have never seen any of them do the A/B switch tests mentioned in this thread. In fact, I believe somebody posted Lew's results over there and was immediatlely banned!!
The Hovlands may be better in active circuits like amplfiers but not in guitars unless you have super ears.
BTW, there is one dis-claimer here. Lew and I are both old farts and our hearing probably isn't as good as it once was!!
I pretty much agree with all the posts made here so far. In theory the Hovlands are a better quality cap but when put into a passive guitar circuit the differences become inaudible for the most part. As Lew stated, I also use Orange Drops over ceramics just for quality reasons. At $ .080 each it's just kind of a no brainer upgrade.
There are plenty of folks over at the LP forum that will dispute this, but I have never seen any of them do the A/B switch tests mentioned in this thread. In fact, I believe somebody posted Lew's results over there and was immediatlely banned!!
The Hovlands may be better in active circuits like amplfiers but not in guitars unless you have super ears.
BTW, there is one dis-claimer here. Lew and I are both old farts and our hearing probably isn't as good as it once was!!
STRATDELUXER97
Stratoblaster Tone Meister
Re: Let's talk caps for a min?
At age 44 I guess I'm hot on your tail for being an old fart! I used to hang out over at the LPF,but it's way too clicky and everyday is a new found flavor with something... :13: If you aren't in the click and you spout out some common knowledge,those guys are quick to jump all over ya! We don't need no stinkin LPF anyways! :32: :wink:
John
BlackRose said:I pretty much agree with all the posts made here so far. In theory the Hovlands are a better quality cap but when put into a passive guitar circuit the differences become inaudible for the most part. As Lew stated, I also use Orange Drops over ceramics just for quality reasons. At $ .080 each it's just kind of a no brainer upgrade.
There are plenty of folks over at the LP forum that will dispute this, but I have never seen any of them do the A/B switch tests mentioned in this thread. In fact, I believe somebody posted Lew's results over there and was immediatlely banned!!
The Hovlands may be better in active circuits like amplfiers but not in guitars unless you have super ears.
BTW, there is one dis-claimer here. Lew and I are both old farts and our hearing probably isn't as good as it once was!!
At age 44 I guess I'm hot on your tail for being an old fart! I used to hang out over at the LPF,but it's way too clicky and everyday is a new found flavor with something... :13: If you aren't in the click and you spout out some common knowledge,those guys are quick to jump all over ya! We don't need no stinkin LPF anyways! :32: :wink:
John
M
Mattt
Guest
Re: Let's talk caps for a min?
What tonal difference does changing the values bring?
What tonal difference does changing the values bring?
STRATDELUXER97
Stratoblaster Tone Meister
Re: Let's talk caps for a min?
You change how much high end shunts to ground and you also tailor the frequencies...My favorite values are .02. .022 or .015
John
Mattt said:
You change how much high end shunts to ground and you also tailor the frequencies...My favorite values are .02. .022 or .015
John
mrfjones
New member
Re: Let's talk caps for a min?
i did not do the push pull test but i can say that i noticed a difference when i put one (orange drop) in my tele. It replaced the disc that came stock and i was just amazed at the fullness of the sound from just changing the cap. Keep in mind that i did this upgrade not knowing what i would get from it and also that i did it to my favorite guitar so i knew the sound of it very well as i am sure all of us know our #1 guitars sound very well. Oh yeah and i think the tone cap lew sent was a .47 if i read it correctly. I just asked him for his recommendation for a tele, so if i got the value wrong, ask lew what he uses in his and it is probably the same value.
i did not do the push pull test but i can say that i noticed a difference when i put one (orange drop) in my tele. It replaced the disc that came stock and i was just amazed at the fullness of the sound from just changing the cap. Keep in mind that i did this upgrade not knowing what i would get from it and also that i did it to my favorite guitar so i knew the sound of it very well as i am sure all of us know our #1 guitars sound very well. Oh yeah and i think the tone cap lew sent was a .47 if i read it correctly. I just asked him for his recommendation for a tele, so if i got the value wrong, ask lew what he uses in his and it is probably the same value.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Let's talk caps for a min?
.047 is the vintage value. I prefer to leave a little more upper mids in the signal when I roll down the tone control, so I use a .02 in all of my guitars. I thought I sent you a .02...maybe I made a mistake? Lew
mrfjones said:
.047 is the vintage value. I prefer to leave a little more upper mids in the signal when I roll down the tone control, so I use a .02 in all of my guitars. I thought I sent you a .02...maybe I made a mistake? Lew
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