Let's talk Princeton

[Rich_S]

Two months running, guys have been singing the praises of the Princeton in Guitar Player interviews. Last month, Jim Campilongo spoke about using a Princeton on The Little Willies debut album. In the most recent GP, Marty Stuart sideman Kenny Vaughn said they were his current favorite.

The Princeton was famously used by Larry Carlton on his legendary work with Steely Dan, like Kid Charlemaine.

What's the deal with Princetons? The technical differences between the Princeton and it's bigger brother the Deluxe Reverb are pretty obvious, but what are the tonal differences? What's cool about the Princetons? Any other famous celebrity uses?

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

I for years have been wanting a 1969-70 era Fender Princton Reverb.. Just because that model is in part the sound of The Who's Who's Next... According to studio accounts in a magazine interview 10 years ago the engineer on the album says Pete used 2 amps for the main electric guitar sound of the album... one being a cranked Princton in the band room, which was mic'd.... the other was a Hiwatt half stack in a sound booth.. The sound on the album is a mix of the 2 amps..... Towards the end of session Pete used his famous Bandmaster/Grestch set up for some Overdubs... oddly in interviews in 1972 Pete claims to of used the Bandmaster and Grestch on every track of Who's next.... but the others say he used the Princton/Hiwatt set up... guitars were a Les Paul jr Leslie West gave Pete and some SG's

The Princton reverb was Pete's home studio amp during the 70's.... having young kids he couldn't crank stacks at home...

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

PS- the Princtons from the early 70's are priced higher and higher every year!!!! i see one on a Toronto Vintage guitar shop's site for $1000..... crazy....

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

You guys need not worry about princetons...they are horrible little amps that you guys should not buy...until I have one or two!

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

Princeton's and Deluxe's are quite different to be honest...the PR is about 12 watts into a single 10 and it is a single channel amp while the DR is more like 22 watts into a 12 (with a much larger cab) and it is 2 channels. I like them both and both sound great but I love 10's (in the right amp IF you use a killer 10) and the size of a PR is just great (SMALL!).

 

[Fresh_Start]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

I'm curious myself - especially if a Silverface Princeton ('68 to '79 or '81) is more desireable than a Blackface Princeton ('64 to '67).

Christian is lusting for a Princeton Reverb IIRC - which model specifically?

EDIT: He got here before I finished... still want to know which model/year sucks the most buddy!

Chip

 

[Curly]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

I'm curious myself - especially if a Silverface Princeton ('68 to '79 or '81) is more desireable than a Blackface Princeton ('64 to '67).

desirable? no
affordable? yes
and just to be clear, we are talking Princeton Reverbs, because they have an extra half gain stage

the first vintage amp I restored was a '66 PR. My parts supplier called them "the most recorded amp in history"
they have a unique trem circuit that some prefer

they were originally an affordable "student" type amp, but like a lot of those small Fender amps, people found that they sounded incredible (and HUGE recorded) when cranked

from my experience, if you get one, it's crucial to get the right speaker, and bias correctly -- this is basic to any tube amp, but in a PR, it will turn an average amp into a beautiful one.

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

The Princeton was famously used by Larry Carlton on his legendary work with Steely Dan, like Kid Charlemaine.

Meh...I could give a **** about Steely Dan.

The tone I associate with it is Duane Allman on the "Layla" sessions.

I own a Princeton Reverb II. God as my witness I can't find the appeal of that amp anywhere in the bloody thing. But I'm reluctant to sell it as the price goes up almost exponentially every time I check. I bought the stupid thing for $150 a couple years ago....I'm almost convinced if things go the way they are i can pay for my kids college degree with the thing and will in turn be able to unload an amp I could never make sound worth a damn.

 

[Curly]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

The tone I associate with it is Duane Allman on the "Layla" sessions.

I own a Princeton Reverb II.

sorry, dude -- the PR II is not the same amp!

and, AFAIK, Duane used his usual Marshall on Layla; Clapton used a Champ

 

[kmcguitars]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

The Princeton Reverb has a certain sweetness to it's tone that's hard to explain? The only thing I can attribute this to is that it uses a Split Load Phase inverter. On my last recording project (Way back when:smack: ) I uses my PR exclusively on one Track and A/b'ed the signal with a Sans Amp GT2 on another track.(At the Dipstick engineers request:eek13: ) The Tone recorded with the PR was Exactly the sound I wanted .While the A/B'ed tone I still find embarrassing:27: . Over the past few years In a lame attempt to make my PR more gigable (In a 6-piece band,9 when horns show up !!) I've done some silly mods to it. The Stokes and Paul C. made the amp LOUDER! But I haven't been happy with the tone.:blackeye: So next chance I get ... Theses mods are coming out!! I had a Kendricks Blackframe speaker in it B4 the mods. I've since replaced that with a Weber Cali' series. I'm hoping the Weber Isn't part of what I'm not liking about the tone... or it's going Bye-Bye!
Another problem maybe the JJ 6V6's ? They break up smoother than the NOS 6V6's I had in the amp,But my low-end is completely flabby now? I don't expect much low end from a PR, BUT!! All I get now is complete flatulence? (Anyone else have this problem w/t JJ's?) Now that I use a HRD as my main gigging amp, I Intend to get my PR sounding like it use to.:dance:
BTW, Moral of the story ... If it Ain't broke, Don't Fix it !

 

[JumpMarine]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

Was the '68 still using the blackface circuit during the transition year?

 

[kmcguitars]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

and, AFAIK, Duane used his usual Marshall on Layla; Clapton used a Champ

Sorry Curly, I have to agree with Skarekrough on this one. According to Tom Dowd, Duane used a Princeton on the Lalya session. But who knows?
Duane sounded like Duane no matter what he played .

 

[Curly]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

kmc ...
the JJs are a different tube to me. At first I really liked them, but in making them stout enough to handle the heat in say a DR, I think they lost a bit of the sweet chime that 6V6s are known for. Still, I'm surprised you would have less bottom.

again, I think biasing is critical in these amps. IIRC, it's a fixed bias, so you either get tubes rated for your playing, or change resistors to bias correctly.

 

[Curly]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

Sorry Curly, I have to agree with Skarekrough on this one. According to Tom Dowd, Duane used a Princeton on the Lalya session.

I'll gladly take Tom Dowd's word

 

[kmcguitars]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

Was the '68 still using the blackface circuit during the transition year?

The Princeton Circuit escaped CBS tinkering for the most part until the mid 70's when they revised it to a B1270 Circuit. I was never good at playing where's Waldo? But looking at both schematics I don't see much changed? CBS might have lowered some voltage in place's? But the components seem the same until the late 70's when they added the silly pull boost knob.:smack:

 

[kmcguitars]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

kmc ...
the JJs are a different tube to me. At first I really liked them, but in making them stout enough to handle the heat in say a DR, I think they lost a bit of the sweet chime that 6V6s are known for. Still, I'm surprised you would have less bottom.

again, I think biasing is critical in these amps. IIRC, it's a fixed bias, so you either get tubes rated for your playing, or change resistors to bias correctly.

I'm hoping it's Not the Tubes. Next time I open her up, ALL STUPID MODS are coming out! However... I already have the parts to add a Bias trim pot to Bias board (As per Doug Hoffman) So that will be the only mod. I have checked the bias. I don't recall the numbers? But they where within operating range for 6V6's. But It will be nice to have some control over the bias.:banana:

 

[Kelsey]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

I have a SF Princeton ('76?), non-reverb model. It's not very loud and stays clean all the way to 10 on the vol. It has a classic Fender clean tone, but finding the right OD for it has been a challenge. However, the Damage Control Womanizer has worked out beautifully. It adds the extra tube gain stages (and then some) that a Princeton Reverb offers. I have a Weber 10F150T in it. I think that the new Eminence 10" hemp cone speaker would be great with it, too.

 

[Lerxt]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

I've got an early 70s Princeton. (15w, tube, non reverb). I love it. Before I got my Behringer GMX212, I used to use it for all my recording. I still use it occasionally. I found the DOD (can't recall the model number but it is a yellow stomp box), overdrive to work well with the unit along with a DOD FX-65 chours. I got the amp back in 1990 when I was in the service from a guy who needed money. He wanted $15 dollars for it. I couldn't rip him off like that so I gave him $20.

Karl

 

[Evan Skopp]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

I have a late-'70s PR. IIRC, the blackface circuit carried over to the silverface up until they added the ground lift and gain boost.

Mine has a cheap replacement, ceramic magnet Carvin speaker. I use it all the time for rehearsals and whatnot (though I can't play it on stage with Seymour because he smokes it). It was my living room amp until I got my Celtic Evan-rude.

Seymour told me that Jeff Beck recorded Guitar Shop with a Princeton.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Let's talk Princeton

All this PR talk is making it worse...somebody sell me a Princeton Reverb for the love of God!!!