Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

[AnnunakiMassacr]

Ok, I do apologise if this is a long post, and contains multiple links. I just want to make sure I get all the right info.

To start off, I'm looking for a power conditioner to run my rig. Live, it will only consist of an Axe Fx II XL, MFC0-101 Floorboard, and a Matrix GT1000FX Power Amp. So basically only 2 power sockets are needed. This is were it get's confusing. Originally I thought that maybe just going for an AC-210 A E by Furman may do the trick: http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=AC-210AE

I can get this for around the £150 from Thomann. But when I emailed Furman they recommended the Classic Series. I got more thinking that having more power outlets may be beneficial incase my rig ever gets bigger. And the entry model is only £40 more than the portable 2-socket one I linked above.

Now the Classic Series has 3 models ranging from £190 - £450. In order they are PL-8 C E, PL-PLUS C E, and PL-PRO DMC E. When researching these 3, the only difference between the models are the cheaper 2 have a 10Amp rating, whilst the more expensive one has a 16Amp rating. The only other differences is that the more expensive 2 have a USB port which I don't care for, and the more expensive one has a Digital Votmeter, and the mid-priced has an LED Voltmeter.

Judging by this, all I'm paying for is having a Voltmeter on the front, which is hardly worth paying £100-200 extra for in my eyes.

So really, it all comes down to whether I'll be fine with a 10Amp Power Conditioner, or I should get the 16Amp one?

My other reason for getting the rack mounted conditioner, was the fact I thought I could plug my gaming/studio PC in, as well all my other electricals for convenience, when using at home.

So...

Live: AXE-FX II, Matrix GT1000FX
Home: PC Workstation, Monitor, AXE FX II, 2 Active Studio Monitors

Here are the 3 Power Conditioners, starting from the cheapest:

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=PL-8CE

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=PL-PLUSCE

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=PL-PRODMCE

Thanks for reading

 

[kilphody]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

Save your money.
They don't do sht.
PC

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

What you need to look at is the.maximum current draw of each device

And size the conditioner to the largest load it will see

If you need less at home so what

You don't want to overload it at the gig

16 A is about right

Don't count outlets on the back
What the conditioner does is replace the wall power with a clean steady sine wave of power
That you rig wants



*(Sent from my durned phone!)*

 

[AnnunakiMassacr]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

My only issue is, the 16A is over £450. Whereas the 10A is under £200. Besides that, they're totally identical internally. I just don't want to waste money if I don't need the 16A.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

Save your money.
They don't do sht.
PC

I'll assume, then, that you've spent more time testing power conditioners than I have. Please, share your findings with the forum. :reporter:

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

My only issue is, the 16A is over £450. Whereas the 10A is under £200. Besides that, they're totally identical internally. I just don't want to waste money if I don't need the 16A.

add up the max amp draw of each device you will plug in at one time in the largest situation

500MA - five hundred milliamp = one half an amp or 0.5A

add em up
see what the total is

if its 9 amp
cool get the 10 amp version

if its 11 or even 10 amp
get the larger one
or neuter your rig

 

[esandes]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

Save your money.
They don't do sht.
PC

this

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

this

So tell us about your experiences with power conditioners. I like to learn.

 

[Brian Griffin]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

Damn...450 pound is a lot of money for a power conditioner. You could get a TC Electronic G Major 2 with that.

 

[esandes]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

So tell us about your experiences with power conditioners. I like to learn.

i was about to get one and i did some research online and spoke with an electrical engineer about them. most of the conditioners on the market will protect against a surge once, or twice at best. once that resistor fries up, it's ability to protect the amp is essentially gone. as for the power conditioning removing the EMI/RFI, i switched to good quality cables. that removed a lot of noise. my gear was picking up some radio or something before. after the cable switch i had no more issues.

that said, if you're playing madison square garden type venues with your 100W tube amp at 6, you may want to invest in a power conditioner to limit RFI/EMI even more. with my amp up really loud (plugged straight into the wall socket) i can faintly hear some interference but for everyday practicing and jamming i'd rather spend the money on other things.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

i was about to get one and i did some research online and spoke with an electrical engineer about them. most of the conditioners on the market will protect against a surge once, or twice at best. once that resistor fries up, it's ability to protect the amp is essentially gone.

That's impeccable logic. We shout get rid of our airbags because they're good for only one use. I like protectors that employ relays triggered off the incoming line voltage. When you power one up, it will test the line conditions for the presence of a stable voltage within a safe window. The load isn't connected until a safe voltage is detected, and if it goes outside that window during usage, the load is disconnected. This helps protect from steady-state over- or under-voltages, blown neutrals, unstable line conditions, and can even reboot a piece of equipment upon recovery from a brownout, instead of leaving it sitting there locked up until someone can manually hard-boot it.

This, in addition to MOVs and that type of sacrificial element, make for a more effect protection device. Also, note that not every protector that uses MOVs will clamp at the same voltage. Some of them clamp high enough to let substantial spikes through; better ones clamp on spikes of lower voltage.

as for the power conditioning removing the EMI/RFI, i switched to good quality cables. that removed a lot of noise. my gear was picking up some radio or something before. after the cable switch i had no more issues.

I'll never argue against good cables, but I've heard real sonic benefits from some filtration devices. A favorite small protector of mine is the TrippLite Ultrablok 428, which tends to lower the noise floor of an audio system that's plugged into it. It has basic MOV protection, but the noise filtration is pretty nice for something of that size and price.

 

[esandes]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

i'll take my chances without the power conditioner. you make it sound like the power grid is purely chaotic. well, it's not. you have a tin foil hat for the power companies? i'm pretty sure they know what they're doing, especially in first world countries.

if i'm going to drop hundreds or thousands of dollars for a power conditioner for the slight chance that a surge will fry my tough as nails marshalls, it better work multiple times. once it's gone how can you tell it's still "effective"? the power conditioner shouldn't be a throw away item.

so to sum it up, i'd rather buy lotto tickets than a power conditioner. can you really hear a difference? what volume is the amp at for you to hear the difference? check the ground.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

i'll take my chances without the power conditioner. you make it sound like the power grid is purely chaotic. well, it's not. you have a tin foil hat for the power companies? i'm pretty sure they know what they're doing, especially in first world countries.

No tin foil hats here. I'm basing my comments on experience. Also, https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?282883-No-power-again

if i'm going to drop hundreds or thousands of dollars for a power conditioner for the slight chance that a surge will fry my tough as nails marshalls, it better work multiple times. once it's gone how can you tell it's still "effective"? the power conditioner shouldn't be a throw away item.

A lot of power conditioners have an indicator light that tells you the protection is good. When the sacrificial element(s) are gone, the light goes out. Relay-base protection can activate over and over -- every turn you turn it on or off, plus it's not damaged by most types of threats. Most companies that make these products have pretty good warranties. Also, the MOV that burns out in a sacrificial event is a pretty mundane, inexpensive part. I wouldn't be surprised if you could replace them and keep going in many cases. Sometimes the thing just smokes, though. I've seen a few Monster power strips do that, including the one I had connected to my TV. I was excessively curious about it, so I did an autopsy. It was fun, but that was it for the Monster; I don't think it did much other than look pretty and take a bullet for my TV. I've had better longevity with Panamax, TrippLite, and Furman.

so to sum it up, i'd rather buy lotto tickets than a power conditioner. can you really hear a difference? what volume is the amp at for you to hear the difference? check the ground.

Yes, I can hear a difference with some of these power conditioners. No, the volume on the amp doesn't have to be crazy high in order for me to hear the drop in noise floor with the TrippLite. No, there's nothing wrong with the ground. I have outlet-checkers, DVMs, and oscilloscopes.

 

[AnnunakiMassacr]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

Well the Power Condiioners I'm looking at have both Noise Filtration and Surge Protection. But it doesn't have TrueRMS Voltage Regulation. To have this, I'm talking the £1000 mark which there's no way I can afford. Will the surge protection be adequate enough?

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

i'll take my chances without the power conditioner. you make it sound like the power grid is purely chaotic. well, it's not. you have a tin foil hat for the power companies? i'm pretty sure they know what they're doing, especially in first world countries.

if i'm going to drop hundreds or thousands of dollars for a power conditioner for the slight chance that a surge will fry my tough as nails marshalls, it better work multiple times. once it's gone how can you tell it's still "effective"? the power conditioner shouldn't be a throw away item.

The intent of these surge protector boxes is that you replace them after a serious event, that's how they work.

I had my Marshall JCM900 plugged straight into the wall once, power company decided to do some repairs on the block outside without warning tenants, they sent a power surge through the place that lit up the microwave from inside while it was OFF, and fried my 'tough as nails' Marshall which required nearly $300 in repairs (almost as much as it was worth) and took 6 months fighting the power company for compensation. No electronic circuit is 'tough as nails'. You throw voltage through there that it was never intended to take and it destroys components.

Now I use a PL-8C. And nothing of any value or importance goes straight into the wall for me.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

here in redneckaland
the power grid is not so rock solid

the local paper mill produces the major part of the power

at 5:30am and at 10:30 pm
when they swap from the daytime capacitor bank to the nighttime bank
my power winks , flickers, whatever for about a second
sometimes as much 3 seconds

several TVs and PC power supplies later and all my electronics run thru a UPS
either Triplite or APS

not my amp, as stated those British dual voltage monsters are almost bullet proof
but PCs and rack gear and such


again
please do the math and decide which size you need
an undersized one will fail immediately and be a waste of money

 

[kilphody]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

Phantom. Saigon. Lion King. Wicked. Chicago...
We built 480V 3 phase power distros that would blow your mind.
You get what ConED gives you in NYC.

PC

 

[kilphody]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

I was Production Sound Engineer for more shows than I can remember.
That Furman crap wastes space on a rack.
PC

 

[aleclee]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

i'll take my chances without the power conditioner. you make it sound like the power grid is purely chaotic. well, it's not. you have a tin foil hat for the power companies? i'm pretty sure they know what they're doing, especially in first world countries.

The grid isn't chaotic but there are other factors influencing what's running through the power cable. Where I live, the biggest concern is lightning. I've had a number of devices fried by near strikes inducing current in my home wiring over the years.

I've never had issues with noise floor (seems to be a greater issue with analog setups than digital ones with their switching power supplies) but I still have a Furman voltage regulator from my days playing tube amps. Around here, the line voltage varies by about 7% and that can affect a tube amp's bias more than you think. Now that I'm down to my last tube amp (and that's going up for sale after the new year), I should probably give that up and use the funds for more fun toys.

I do currently have a Carvin power device in my rack, mainly because I like the sequenced switching.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Looking at Furman Power Conditioners? Don't know which one

yea I have one of the Carvin sequencing strips in my rack as well