Low output pickups for metal?

[HeavenSent]

Hello everyone,

Recently I got an old strat for free in an exchange with one guy, but did not have much time to test it until now. The guitar has 3 single coil pickups, so I thought it would not sound so good for metal, and I started playing blues and jazz and whatnot on it. It sounded really nice so I thought why not try it on high gain settings as well?
And then I was amazed. I added noise gate and a little bit of gain booster (I played through Guitar Rig), and although palm muting did not sound so good, everything else was great. Chords and power chords had great definition and sustain, my playing was a lot cleaner and sweeping was no problem at all, even on bridge pickup. I felt like I stuck too much with high output pickups like Duncan Distortion or Emg's just because I thought I need massive amount of gain in every aspect, but turns out amplifier does much more of the job there. The sound from these single coils was also more natural and more somewhat fluid.

Now, I think single coils lack that thickness for palm muting, and I also had to add that gain booster to have the sound I want. But I thought maybe I should try some low output humbuckers, they have twice more gain than single coils usually, so I guess that could do the trick. I was thinking to maybe put 59 or Pearly Gates in one of my guitars and see how it would act with high gain stuff.

What do you guys think? Does someone here have some experience with this topic, and if you do, what pickup would you recommend me? Thanks in advance!

 

[ThunderLizard]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

Yep! You can play metal with low output humbuckers. I have a Dean V that now has a '59 in the bridge and I can even get a Pantera type sound out of it. Yes, I can even palm mute and get a great chugging rhythm sound going.

What a lot of people forget is that with todays high gain preamps you don't have to have high gain pickups anymore. When high output distortion pickups came out you didn't have master volumes and multiple gain stages. Now with high gain master volume amps with a pedal in front of it, you could get a metal sound out of a Silvertone.

By the way, if you put a Hot Rails in the bridge of the Fender you can palm mute it too and still not have to loose the Strat vibe completely.

 

[Artie]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

Slash uses AII Pro's. Low output, mellow and sweet. But he makes it work.

 

[dominus]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

Humbuckers don't have twice the output/gain of single coils. They may have double the resistance (which isn't always a measurement of output), but that's because they have two coils. That's it. If you were going off of resistance = output, a single coil measuring 6k-7k would be the equivalent of a 12k-14k humbucker.

 

[CTN]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

I mean... with a good amp and a few tonal shaping options, you could play metal with any kind of pickup.

But the high output/distortion class humbuckers not only have that extra punch to your amp's preamp, but they are also voiced a very particular way which tends to work better with dense band mixes. PAFs and vintagey pickups tend to be very clear and subtle. With tons of gain laid on top, they are still clear, but they tend to lack grind, attitude, meatiness and a lot of the tonality that guitarists sometimes like to hear in high output pickups (like for example the screaming midrange of the duncan distortion, or the surgical tightness of the full shred, or the big meaty thickness of the DMZ Super Distortion)

For me, it's a matter of using the right tool for the job rather than using a tool that can get the job done but wasn't designed for the specific task at hand.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

Are there many players who build a metal sound around low-output pickups, in their choice of associated equipment and how they play?

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

I use telecaster single coils and I prefer the Pearly Gates bridge pickup - definitely lower output pickups. I don't really even use high gain amplifiers either. I like a cleaner sound, which blends nicely with the majority of other players I play with, who like a fairly "mean" and "meaty" sound when it comes to gain. I think the best way to approach the issue is "How is your sound complimenting whatever who/what you're playing with?". If you're playing alone, how does your sound compliment what you're playing?

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

Low output pups don't drive the same as high output pups do as CTN stated above. Also Singles don't drive or react the same as a bucker would. Also the character is different. PAFs aren't as aggressive as a high distortion class pup like a invader or duncan distortion or X2n.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

One of the biggest problems with using vintage style single coils for high gain is that they don't respond as evenly as humbuckers because a great deal of the sound is focused on the initial attack. Also the pickups EQ is midrange scooped and treble heavy, so palm mutes don't sound right. The SSL3 is a hot single coil and its EQ is closer to a humbucker than a vintage single coil, namely a large midrange hump. The SSL5 is very balanced sounding with vintage brightness, but it can handle obscene volume levels and distortion levels without sounding clanky or muddy. You can use a compressor/limiter to round off the initial attack and smooth out the sustain of a single coil. A parametric EQ also works well because you can boost/cut a wide range of frequencies to shape the guitars sound. Graphic EQ's aren't as useful because the amount of cut/boost is smaller than a parametric EQ and the band of frequencies per slider is narrow. However you can get fine adjustment with a graphic EQ

 

[rumblebox]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

My JSX has so much gain in the ultra channel, i can tune in great metal tone with even a burstbucker 3. IMO, high gain amps are very prone to getting too fizzy and saturated with really hot pickups. I do love the custom wind though.

 

[synzzzer]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

With higher end EQ's and really top notch high gain amps, it opens up what kind of pickups you can use. The reasoning behind using something like a Dimebucker or other overwound pickup is that, they have a lot of compression. So you can dial up a ton of gain, but it will still keep the sound from going to mush. So whether you are a Duncan Distortion, Invader, or Dimebucker kind of guy, the EQ doesn't matter as much as the compression.

(Note: I realize this is the short version, but anything longer than this, and eyes start to glaze over.0

 

[DreX]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

The reasoning behind using something like a Dimebucker or other overwound pickup is that, they have a lot of compression.

Something I'd like to know is, is a hotter pickup actually compressing, or is it the fact that the high frequencies are being attenuated that is creating a sense of compression in the remaining mids, since the high frequencies would have been the first to fade out?

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

Full Shred, 59/Custom hybrid, Screamin Demon (and potentially the new Perpetual Burn)!!! 59s or wlh could also work but if you're looking for the tightness and meat, the others I mentioned would work beautifully.

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

Something I'd like to know is, is a hotter pickup actually compressing, or is it the fact that the high frequencies are being attenuated that is creating a sense of compression in the remaining mids, since the high frequencies would have been the first to fade out?

The hotter the pickup, the more it hits the amp and the amp starts clipping which compresses it.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

This brings up the old saying "there is more than one way to skin a cat" Yes you can do it. But a high gain preamp with low output pickups is not the same as high output pickups and a medium gain preamp. I wont say one is better than the other because what is better is up to the individual to decide for themselves. Theres a reason why guys with ENGL's and Diezels still use high output pickups and its not cause their amps lack gain.

In my expierence low output pickups can be dialed in for metal easily in your bed room (and im talking metal not guns and roses hard rock) But to get them to sit in a band mix is very hard.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

The stock pick ups in my Gibbo SG Faded has GREAT units as stock, for metal - IMHO.

Metal = think Pantera, In This Moment, Rob Zombie, Volbeat, Texas Hippie Coalation, and, and, and !

My current units in the SG, Duncan A2P's also handle Hi-Gain very well !!!!

 

[bladefrenzy]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

I have both "vintage" style and high output pickups in various guitars. Ive found both can work well. I have a Pearly Gates with an A8 mag thats great. Im currently using a Tiny Terror and a Mesa Cab. I usually run the Terror almost clean and use pedals to push it. Most of my lower powered pickups with this rig have a thicker meatier tone. That being said I have a DMZ Super 3 in my favorite old Ibanez sz520 that really screams when pushing the amp hard. Remember, there are no rules. Use what sounds good to you.

 

[Gunner4Life]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

My 9.5k PATB-3's through my EVH 5150iii is giving me the best metal tones I ever had.

 

[rumblebox]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

I really want to try one of those^^

 

[DreX]

Re: Low output pickups for metal?

The hotter the pickup, the more it hits the amp and the amp starts clipping which compresses it.

That being the case, do hot pickups lose their compression characteristics when you roll off the volume on the guitar? Honest question, I don't trust my ears.