MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

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dspiffy

New member
My understanding is these guitars use the Bill Lawrence named pickups NOT made by Bill Lawrence and his family, as opposed to the Wilde Bill named pickups made by the Bill Lawrence family, correct?

What are the differences between the Strat and Tele sets other than mounting?

If I obtained the 45th anniversary MadCat guitar, which uses a Tele set, would it be worth swapping to the Strat set? What would be the best way to do that without drilling holes in the bridge guard?
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

Looooong history regarding the "Bill Lawrence" pickups and depending on who you talk to you will get a different tale of what happened.

The man himself, Bill Lawrence, passed away (RIP) and thus is no longer making pickups. His wife, Becky, still makes pickups/runs a shop that makes pickups–these are known as Wilde Bill Lawrence Pickups.

Bill Lawrence USA is owned/run by Jzchak Wajcman who actually has the rights to the Bill Lawrence name/trademark. He was a business partner with Bill Lawrence the man. When Bill Lawrence the man left, Wajcman took full ownership of the trademarks and equipment, thus his pickups are considered very close to the originals by some (depends on who you talk to)

I owned several of the Strat and Tele pickups by Bill Lawrence USA but never got around to putting them in a guitar. I would think the difference would just the mounting, Bill Lawrence USA's website is dreadful, IMO, and I can't see anything to say one way or the other.

If your guitar is coming with Bill Lawrences already in them I would recommend you wait and see how they sound–you may not need to change anything.
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

treyhaislip said:
Looooong history regarding the "Bill Lawrence" pickups and depending on who you talk to you will get a different tale of what happened.

The man himself, Bill Lawrence, passed away (RIP) and thus is no longer making pickups. His wife, Becky, still makes pickups/runs a shop that makes pickups–these are known as Wilde Bill Lawrence Pickups.

Bill Lawrence USA is owned/run by Jzchak Wajcman who actually has the rights to the Bill Lawrence name/trademark. He was a business partner with Bill Lawrence the man. When Bill Lawrence the man left, Wajcman took full ownership of the trademarks and equipment, thus his pickups are considered very close to the originals by some (depends on who you talk to)

I owned several of the Strat and Tele pickups by Bill Lawrence USA but never got around to putting them in a guitar. I would think the difference would just the mounting, Bill Lawrence USA's website is dreadful, IMO, and I can't see anything to say one way or the other.

If your guitar is coming with Bill Lawrences already in them I would recommend you wait and see how they sound–you may not need to change anything.
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I dont suppose you have an S1 and S3 you would sell? I was going to buy them to put in a different guitar for comparison purposes.

BOTH Bill Lawrence company websites are horrible. I sent emails to both, neither was returned.
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

dspiffy said:
I dont suppose you have an S1 and S3 you would sell? I was going to buy them to put in a different guitar for comparison purposes.

BOTH Bill Lawrence company websites are horrible. I sent emails to both, neither was returned.
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Sorry bro, I had the rail pickups and sold/traded them all.

Yes, both sites are horrible and their customer service is even worse. Becky Lawrence took around 2 months after I had paid for 2 pickups to contact me...I had left multiple messages and sent several e-mails.

Just checked eBay and found these:

BL USA S1

BL USA S3

BL USA T1


Not quite sure but it looks like there may be a difference as the S1 says it was built for Stevie Ray Vaughn and the T1 says it was made for Roy Buchanan...Hope that helps!
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

Spotted those, and they're $5 cheaper on Amazon.

I've heard those horror stories as well so I only plan to buy on eBay, Amazon, or from a forum member here or elsewhere.
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

dspiffy said:
Spotted those, and they're $5 cheaper on Amazon.

I've heard those horror stories as well so I only plan to buy on eBay, Amazon, or from a forum member here or elsewhere.
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Yeah, I would recommend going that route if you are going to buy BL products. Have you checked your local Craiglist? I scored a couple there in the past.
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

Nada.

In the meantime, my other question: if I decide to buy this guitar, and switch from Tele to Strat pickups, how do I mount the bridge pickup without drilling additional holes in the bridge guard? Will the neck pickup be a direct swap?

madcat-anniv-2.jpg
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

Here's a thread about this very issue

I would recommend just mounting the Strat bridge pickup directly to the body.

The neck pickup should be a direct swap although I'm not 100% sure about potential height issues.
 
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Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

Then you wouldnt be able to adjust the height, correct?

Would the neck pickup fit without cutting a larger hole?
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

dspiffy said:
Then you wouldnt be able to adjust the height, correct?
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Ever? No.

When the cover/guard and bridge is on? Yes.


dspiffy said:
Would the neck pickup fit without cutting a larger hole?
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I am gonna assume it would fit without any cutting. But I don't have either in front of me and can't find information about their dimensions readily available so I can only say I think so.
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

I would be really nervous mounting it to the wood, but I have someone that could do it for me.
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

dspiffy said:
I would be really nervous mounting it to the wood, but I have someone that could do it for me.
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Here are a couple of links I found you may want to look into in one way or another, not endorsing any of the ideas in these threads just saying there are some options:

1.

2.

3.
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

Thanks! I'd seen some of these and not others.

I suppose it's too much to hope for that someone has actually messed with one of these guitars (or any of the knockoff versions) and pickups and has firsthand experience. I cant imagine I'm the first one. Maybe I am.
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

dspiffy said:
Thanks! I'd seen some of these and not others.

I suppose it's too much to hope for that someone has actually messed with one of these guitars (or any of the knockoff versions) and pickups and has firsthand experience. I cant imagine I'm the first one. Maybe I am.
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Most welcome!

I just did a search for "MadCat Guitars" and only got this thread lol So looks like you are the only forum member to actually post about 'em lol
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

I've checked other forums. This forum seemed to have the best pickup related discussions, which is why I joined here for this.
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

The wilde are VERY different from the BLUSA

I have owned both and I really did not like the thin and shrill BLUSA sound.

I also own some OBL, and some from before the Wajcman/Lawrence split. The Wilde sound closer to those for the most part.

Wilde can be REALLY slow if you order anything from the custom series. I have never had an order not delivered in many, many orders.
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

Gibson 1964 said:
The wilde are VERY different from the BLUSA

I have owned both and I really did not like the thin and shrill BLUSA sound.

I also own some OBL, and some from before the Wajcman/Lawrence split. The Wilde sound closer to those for the most part.

Wilde can be REALLY slow if you order anything from the custom series. I have never had an order not delivered in many, many orders.
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Hence I said depends on who you talk to lol

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't BL USA machine wound and Wilde hand wound?

I do have a BL USA A300 acoustic pickup that is my go to acoustic pickup...but have heard more quality complaints about BL USA than Wilde.
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

treyhaislip said:
Hence I said depends on who you talk to lol

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't BL USA machine wound and Wilde hand wound?

I do have a BL USA A300 acoustic pickup that is my go to acoustic pickup...but have heard more quality complaints about BL USA than Wilde.
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Wilde are Machine wound according to a conversation I had with Bill in his workshop. He wanted perfectly wound coils with perfect consistency. This is per a conversation with him. He thought handwound was superstitious nonsense at least according to my understanding of our conversation. (The man got way over my head at times.) But I really do like Wilde pickups, but I do see Bill's design philosophy in them that technical perfection would give you more of everything which you could then tailor to your taste by filtering later on in your signal chain or by fine tuning using passive components in the guitar. (there are numerous diagrams of him showing how to fine tune certain pickups of his.)

IMO, they are perfect at what they do, but they are not necessarily the easiest or most conventional in how you would go about using them.
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

Gibson 1964 said:
Wilde are Machine wound according to a conversation I had with Bill in his workshop. He wanted perfectly wound coils with perfect consistency. This is per a conversation with him. He thought handwound was superstitious nonsense at least according to my understanding of our conversation. (The man got way over my head at times.) But I really do like Wilde pickups, but I do see Bill's design philosophy in them that technical perfection would give you more of everything which you could then tailor to your taste by filtering later on in your signal chain or by fine tuning using passive components in the guitar. (there are numerous diagrams of him showing how to fine tune certain pickups of his.)

IMO, they are perfect at what they do, but they are not necessarily the easiest or most conventional in how you would go about using them.
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Hmm, I thought Becky claimed they are handwound but I most definitely could be wrong–I've only spoken with Becky, Bill had already passed away by the time I tried my first Bill Lawrence.

The Wildes seem to feel better made then BL USA, IMO.

And yeah, Bill was a genius and reading through his writings and listening to his interviews definitely show he knew what he was talking about...goes way over my head!
 
Re: MadCat guitars/Bill Lawrence pickups

Gibson 1964 said:
This is per a conversation with him. He thought handwound was superstitious nonsense at least according to my understanding of our conversation. (The man got way over my head at times.) But I really do like Wilde pickups, but I do see Bill's design philosophy in them that technical perfection would give you more of everything which you could then tailor to your taste by iltering later on in your signal chain or by fine tuning using passive components in the guitar. (there are numerous diagrams of him showing how to fine tune certain pickups of his.)
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This /\ he didn't buy into the hand-wouund, scatter wound, prairie wound stuff, he wanted consistency in his products and he used methods and machines that he built himself to achieve that. He knew the "real" electro-magnetic engineering/science behind pickups and his designs started with that. I don't think many other pickup makers understand the real "science" behind pickups, there is a lot of trial and error design going on (I'm not faulting that either, I do plenty of that myself too).

Oh yeah, if you wanted a lecture from him, all you had to do was refer to DC resistance as output ;-)

Plus, he was a super nice guy and glad to explain things to you, although, yes, he could easily go over my head as well, and I have a degree in electronics. If I use a rails pickup, I'll order from the real Bill Lawrence company, www.wildepickups.com. Yes, they are small and they do get backlogged, but I prefer my $ to go there.

Yeah, I guess I was/am a fan boy. That said, currently I have Duncans and DMZs in my guitars...
 
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