Mass Versus Sustain

[Chistopher]

I saw this neat flick while wandering YouTube that does am excellent job to prove how mass affects sustain. I know many people in the past have asked for documentation on this type of thing.

The increase of sustain might also be in part due to metal being less flexible than wood, but this video helps people to understand the balance of mass and sustain.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Mass Versus Sustain

I’d rather hear the tone of that Les Paul than the tone of that I Beam any day.

 

[PS412]

Re: Mass Versus Sustain

Density is the answer.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Mass Versus Sustain

GASing for steel structure

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Mass Versus Sustain

Another very important factor is how hard you pluck the string and the angle of the pick to the string. He is obviously pounding the string on the steel beam with the pick at right angle to the string, and barely plucking the LP diagonally.

Not a very controlled experiment. Thus no real conclusion can be made.

It seems to me that if someone really wanted an accurate answer, they would take care to make sure the experiment was as controlled as possible. This was biased from the beginning.

Believe it if you want to, but if you do, I bet you probably believe everything you see on the internet.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Mass Versus Sustain

Another very important factor is how hard you pluck the string and the angle of the pick to the string. He is obviously pounding the string on the steel beam with the pick at right angle to the string, and barely plucking the LP diagonally.

Not a very controlled experiment. Thus no real conclusion can be made.

It seems to me that if someone really wanted an accurate answer, they would take care to make sure the experiment was as controlled as possible. This was biased from the beginning.

Believe it if you want to, but if you do, I bet you probably believe everything you see on the internet.

But if you notice from the graphs, even though the initial strike on the Les Paul was weaker, there is a major difference in the "steepness" of the decay. Plus, there's no way picking strike can account for 30 seconds of difference in sustain.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Mass Versus Sustain

Of course the slope is going to be different. Wood absorbs a lot more of the vibration of the string. But if this experiment is about "mass", then he should have at least started with the same mass of steel as wood. In this case he is only comparing the affect of densities and allowing the disproportionate masses to influence the results. There is not enough space on this page or hours in a day to specifically delineate all of the flaws in this study.

What if he compared a string on a 24.75" aluminum ruler to a LP? Would the results be the same?

All I'm saying is that it was not a controlled experiment and therefore the results are not accurate.

And, yes, the picking strike and angle WILL make a big difference in total length of sustain.

Look, I'm not trying to change your mind, you certainly have the right to believe what you want. But if you put much merit in this experiment you are doing yourself a very big disservice.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Mass Versus Sustain

pcorn:

 

[PS412]

Re: Mass Versus Sustain

Steel is more flexible than wood. It has a much higher modulus of elasticity.

 

[RorySquier]

Re: Mass Versus Sustain

Now that's "Heavy Metal" for you.



;>)/

 

[LLL]

Re: Mass Versus Sustain

Steel is more flexible than wood. It has a much higher modulus of elasticity.

View attachment 86241

Did you use the term "modulus" there?

For whatever reason, I can see that term as being the 2018 buzzword for the bourgeoise clueless middle manager in a corporate environment.

 

[PS412]

Re: Mass Versus Sustain

Could be. I learned it working for 30 years with predominantly metal things and engineers.
I could talk about inertia moments, cold flow, ductility and other stuff for hours. Life of the party I is.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Mass Versus Sustain

Could be. I learned it working for 30 years with predominantly metal things and engineers.
I could talk about inertia moments, cold flow, ductility and other stuff for hours. Life of the party I is.

I don't know, I could spend hours coming up with pick up lines involving long stiff rods. I could spend 30 minutes on tensile strength alone.

 

[PS412]

Re: Mass Versus Sustain

Want to grab a beer and see if we get lucky. You hit the ladies with tensile and I'll wow em with yield strength.
Don't let my wife know, she'll test out my impact strength.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Mass Versus Sustain

Pro tip: Chicks dig low ionization energies. One time I removed my most loosely bound valence electron, her patinas dropped right to the floor.

 

[PS412]

Re: Mass Versus Sustain

Puts them in orbit everytime. Or out of as the case may be.

 

[beaubrummels]

Mass Versus Sustain

I thought Les Paul proved this even before the electric guitar was invented?

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Mass Versus Sustain

To me, live sustain is more important than inherent sustain. A metal guitar- or even a stiff laminated wood guitar- doesn't come alive at volume the way a lively wood one does. For me, that more than makes up for having less sustain when unplugged.

I want that dynamic interaction between hands, amp, and soundspace. And in my experience lively response is the magic factor, while rigidity (especially in the neck) and excess mass are the enemies of it. Generally, it has required far more ambient sound energy to make a stiff or heavy guitar come alive in my hands.

Anyway, that's my opinion and preference based on many decades of experience. YMMV.