Maxing out my Rectoverb...

[B2D]

Just a thought...

I have a MESA/Boogie Rectoverb that I like a whole lot. I know there's a scattering of Rectoverb users on here as well, and a lot that use MESA amps and like to fool around with tube types as well.

If possible, I'd like to get a fatter, sweeter, juicier, more harmonically rich tone out of my amp. Is there a "prescription" of tubes I can use to nudge the amp in that direction? I'm cool with swapping preamp tubes but I'm a little nervous about using different brands of power tubes in the amp, as Boogie cautions against using other brands and I don't wanna ruin a $1200 amp... I'm currently running stock 12AX7's and a duet of EL34's (they're labeled STR447 on the side of them).

Any suggestions?

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

JJs seem to be the brand that a lot of Mesa users like to smooth out their amps. I'm going to try a set next time I'm due for tubes.

Something else that has worked for me lately is to dime the gain and set the lead drive to zero. Then try maybe 5 for treble, 7 for mids and 4-5 for the bass and back off the presence a bit. With the drive backed off the tone controls will have a lot more influence on the gain of the amp and by raising and lowering the highs and mids you'll shape the gain as well as the tone. If you front end the amp with a boost or light OD from there you should find the amp acts and sounds far more like a pushed MV amp than a high gain beast.

Even without front ending the amp you should have more than enough gain. I also found that by dropping the gain to 9 and setting the drive to 1 and mesing around in that area there are some great tones available that aren't normally what you would associate with Mesa stuff.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

JJs seem to be the brand that a lot of Mesa users like to smooth out their amps. I'm going to try a set next time I'm due for tubes.

Something else that has worked for me lately is to dime the gain and set the lead drive to zero. Then try maybe 5 for treble, 7 for mids and 4-5 for the bass and back off the presence a bit. With the drive backed off the tone controls will have a lot more influence on the gain of the amp and by raising and lowering the highs and mids you'll shape the gain as well as the tone. If you front end the amp with a boost or light OD from there you should find the amp acts and sounds far more like a pushed MV amp than a high gain beast.

Even without front ending the amp you should have more than enough gain. I also found that by dropping the gain to 9 and setting the drive to 1 and mesing around in that area there are some great tones available that aren't normally what you would associate with Mesa stuff.

When talking about "lead drive", do you mean each channel's "master" control (basically the preamp volume). I only ask because there is no knob marked lead drive on my Rectoverb, and I've been interested by the tones you're talking about getting lately.





B2D, I put a high gain option full retube from Eurotubes (JJ tubes) in my Rectoverb, and have had no problems. The preamp tubes (12AX7/ECC83S) did not lessen the amount of gain on tap from the stock Mesa tubes at all, and overall the tones have been more punchy, fatter, and smoother since I retubed. There was a slight buzzy quality to the amp when I first got it, probably due to the 5 year old tubes, that was immediately gone with the JJs. Mesas are also biased VERY cold apparently, so tubes that run a little hotter shouldn't be a problem. Many people even recommend getting an adjustable bias mod done to them to really get them cookin'. Good luck man.

 

[Jeff5]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

You can also try pushing your amp a bit with a tube screamer or tube screamer type pedal. Gives you a bit better harmonics and a bit more of a pushed sound. Some can thin out your sound (which I know is the opposite of what your going for!), but I don't personally have that problem with my tube screamer. (I have a TS-9)

 

[FretFire]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

You can also try pushing your amp a bit with a tube screamer or tube screamer type pedal. Gives you a bit better harmonics and a bit more of a pushed sound. Some can thin out your sound (which I know is the opposite of what your going for!), but I don't personally have that problem with my tube screamer. (I have a TS-9)

Good point as well, with my Route 66 on a moderate drive setting it can seriously thicken things up.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

I see the problem after sifting through Mesas site. The Rectoverbs have gain and a channel master as well as an overall master volume. The Triaxis has gain and a lead drive on both the lead 1 and lead 2 banks as well as an overall channel master as well as a pair of global volume controls for a/b.

With the Rectoverbs you want to drop the gain significantly and boost the channel masters to clean the amp up a bit and get rid of some of the grind. The object is to get away from as much preamp distortion as possible and to make the power tubes work harder. You may find that raising the overall level and backing off on the channel masters and gain helps this as well. I think you'll find that once you get the preamp gain down the tone controls will get more responsive and you'll be able to adjust not only the tone but the amount of clipping with the mid and treble controls.

Something else that might work is to dime the gain on the clean channel and front end the amp. The gain available from the clean channel should be considerably less driven sounding than the lead channel and you should be able to get a rounder, more vowel-like type of tone that way.

The way I look at it, many of the more classic amp tones came from amps that really didn't have that much gain on tap to begin with and players used hotter pickups, OD and distortion pedals to get the power amp clipping and thats where that smooth round tone came from. In order to get Mesas to do that you need to back off of the gain and get a larger but less clipped input to the power tubes.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

Ah, that makes more sense. I was really doubting that you were referring to something by a different name when talking about the "lead drive" and assumed the layouts were different as you said, just wanted to check.

I've found that keeping the channel masters (preamp volume) down way low and using the master output to control volume is a great way to get nice tones at "neighbor friendly" levels, and then you can just goose the preamp to get your juice back again. As you said, the tone controls do seem more responsive with preamp low/output high, and the tones smooth out a lot.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

You can also try pushing your amp a bit with a tube screamer or tube screamer type pedal. Gives you a bit better harmonics and a bit more of a pushed sound. Some can thin out your sound (which I know is the opposite of what your going for!), but I don't personally have that problem with my tube screamer. (I have a TS-9)

For some seriously sweet old school tone, put channel on on pushed with the gain up reasonably high (somewhere between noon and max), then adjust your master volume until you hit your power amps sweet spot....it'll start to feel all liquidy...you'll know it when you find it.

-----

On my last retube, I went with Svetlana's. I was going to try JJs, but I didn't want the darkend tone they're said to give. I'll still try them someday, but currently I really like the tone of the Svet's.

You can order tubes from anywhere that can sell you tubes specifically chose for a Mesa amp. I recommend www.eurotubes.com for JJ/Telsa tubes, or www.thetubestore.com for all others.

 

[Guitarist]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

I see the problem after sifting through Mesas site. The Rectoverbs have gain and a channel master as well as an overall master volume. The Triaxis has gain and a lead drive on both the lead 1 and lead 2 banks as well as an overall channel master as well as a pair of global volume controls for a/b.

With the Rectoverbs you want to drop the gain significantly and boost the channel masters to clean the amp up a bit and get rid of some of the grind. The object is to get away from as much preamp distortion as possible and to make the power tubes work harder. You may find that raising the overall level and backing off on the channel masters and gain helps this as well. I think you'll find that once you get the preamp gain down the tone controls will get more responsive and you'll be able to adjust not only the tone but the amount of clipping with the mid and treble controls.

Something else that might work is to dime the gain on the clean channel and front end the amp. The gain available from the clean channel should be considerably less driven sounding than the lead channel and you should be able to get a rounder, more vowel-like type of tone that way.

The way I look at it, many of the more classic amp tones came from amps that really didn't have that much gain on tap to begin with and players used hotter pickups, OD and distortion pedals to get the power amp clipping and thats where that smooth round tone came from. In order to get Mesas to do that you need to back off of the gain and get a larger but less clipped input to the power tubes.

Word, I've found this all to be true for myself as well.

I also put in a pair of GT6L6GE's rated at 4 and a GT12AX7C in the V1. Those have definetely warmed up my amp. Rolled the gain back slightly and gave it a new midrange that is much fatter and smoother. I'll try JJ's next, but until then - I plan to enjoy these Groove Tubes thoroughly!

Good luck!

 

[FretFire]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

Just as a note, the "high gain" graded JJ 12AX7s do not have the "dark" qualities people have talked about (so I've heard from people that have tried both). I've also heard that JJ redesigned their 12AX7s recently, but I'm not sure how true that is.

 

[B2D]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

Let me clarify... I don't need a whole lot of help with my settings. My method is to set the amp gain at a medium level, set the channel volume to about half, then crank the master volume, and then goose it with an overdrive pedal (I use a BD2 that I'd like to get Keeley'd). This way I get a tone that has all the gain i need but still has a lot of sustain and clarity... it's "my" sound and i like it a lot! But the advice is appreciated nonetheless.

What I'm looking to do is to make the RAW TONE of the amp better. I have my sound, now I'd like to tweak it to make it as good as it can be. I figured that trying some different tube types was the best way to do this.

I've tried JJ/Teslas before and had good experiences with them... should I talk to one of their guys to see what they recommend? Or does that "High Gain Option" retube come in a package?

And how much would it cost to get and adjustable bias in this amp? Wjere would I have it done? There is the MESA/Boogie Hollywood store near me...

 

[JALIN]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

Eurotubes now do a package deal including the high gain option with your choice of EL34 or 6L6. I`m planning on trying the KT88 in my Solo 50 head.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

Let me clarify... I don't need a whole lot of help with my settings. My method is to set the amp gain at a medium level, set the channel volume to about half, then crank the master volume, and then goose it with an overdrive pedal (I use a BD2 that I'd like to get Keeley'd). This way I get a tone that has all the gain i need but still has a lot of sustain and clarity... it's "my" sound and i like it a lot! But the advice is appreciated nonetheless.

What I'm looking to do is to make the RAW TONE of the amp better. I have my sound, now I'd like to tweak it to make it as good as it can be. I figured that trying some different tube types was the best way to do this.

I've tried JJ/Teslas before and had good experiences with them... should I talk to one of their guys to see what they recommend? Or does that "High Gain Option" retube come in a package?

And how much would it cost to get and adjustable bias in this amp? Wjere would I have it done? There is the MESA/Boogie Hollywood store near me...

The high gain option is a package deal you can get, I'll provide a link at the end of this post. I'm not sure how much an adjustable bias mod would cost, but I'd imagine the Mesa Hollywood store would be a good place to take your amp .



The last two packages are the high gain options

 

[brisk]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

I've been paying attention to this thread because I may trade in my 2204 stack to get RTV v. 2. (I no longer need a stack and I need an amp for drop D nu metal)

B2D, the best way to max out your RTV is shipping to me though (help poor Asian immigrant!)

Cheers

 

[FretFire]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

I've been paying attention to this thread because I may trade in my 2204 stack to get RTV v. 2. (I no longer need a stack and I need an amp for drop D nu metal)

B2D, the best way to max out your RTV is shipping to me though (help poor Asian immigrant!)

Cheers

Just out of curiosity, any particular reason you're specifically wanting a Series II?

 

[brisk]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

Just out of curiosity, any particular reason you're specifically wanting a Series II?

I heard that you can switch between EL34 and 6L6 with series 2, which is not a big deal but may come handy later.

Cheers?

 

[brisk]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

B2D, I got a pair of NOS JAN Philips 7581A from KCA NOS tube for my Traynor and it's smoking HOT!

-------------------------

Military/Industrial version of the 6L6GC. Higher power handling capacity. Great highs and lows. Perfect where lots of headroom is desired. The ULTIMATE Twin Reverb tube!!! Also great in Super Reverbs, Vibrolux , Mesa Boogies and audiophile amps. Able to withstand over 500 volts on the plate, easily! Supply on these is running out so expect price increases in the coming months. Excellent substitute for 7027As.
" [The] n.o.s. jan phillips 7581a's make my boogie scream again. thanks for the tone " truley, a.c. graham

The Phillips 7581A's are VERY impressive. The spectrum from low to high is so sharp and tight. Lows are smooth and flowing, and the highs
are crisp, but not brittle. All in all, I feel I have lifted an iron curtain off of my amp and it is sparkling with all of the tone I've dreamed of
having. Thanks for everything... I am sure I will be buying more of these tubes from you in the future! You will also get big endorsements from me when anyone asks about tubes! Take Care, Matt

Mike- Just got the twin back from the shop and wanted to drop you a line and tell ya' the NOS JAN Philips 7581A's are all that and a bag of chips!! It's 11:30pm and the wife is really pissed because I've been playing non-stop. This is what a twin is supposed to sound like! I also had it black faced. I want to order a matched pair for the super now! I just bought the new 64' Virbroverb with the new GT 6L6GE's and it can't touch it. The twin is clear as a bell and LOUD. I have the 135w CBS twin that everyone poo,poo's but it's now my favorite! Thanks -Art

Mike: These sound unbelievable in my Traynor YCV40. Thanks. Steve Moss

Mike,

Thanks for the tubes (Tele 12AX7 and a pair of 7581A's). I had then installed on Saturday. The tone is so much better I can't believe it. It seems like I have a cleaner, smoother tone with much clarity and the picking dynamics are just awesome. I thank you very much for all that. I would have to say that my Super Reverb RI is one of the finest amps I've ever heard NOW. These tubes have really made the difference for me!

Troy

JAN Philips 7581A's (super 6L6GC) (Back to review index)
Mike
Could I get another matched Quad of these. They're great......
Thanks Joe Richardson

JAN Philips 7581A's (super 6L6GC) (Back to review index)
Mike -

You were right. The Philips 7581A's are great in this amp (Fender DeVille 410). I couldn't get the bias any lower than 39mA - but heck, that's only 53% of the plate voltage! I think they'll last a long, long time. Even my wife commented on the great tone, which is different than saying "please turn that thing down!"

Thanks, T
Tom Houser

 

[brisk]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

JAN Philips 7581A's (super 6L6GC) (Back to review index)
Dear Mike,

I have been playing the Jan Phillips 7581A's you sent me for about a week now, and can not believe the difference
they made in my 59 reissue Bassman. I had replaced the original Sovtek's with NOS GE 6L6GC's a while ago. This
made a huge difference in sound, but I still wasn't satisfied. The amp seemed a little dark and too midrangey. I experimented with different NOS preamp tubes including the 5751's, along with rectifier combinations, and was recently researching new
speakers. I decided to try the 7581A's, based on your recommendation and viola! The sound is pure, sweet, Fender. They seem to bring out the best of the Bassman's unique tone, as well as enhancing the sound of my pedals. Instead of trying different combinations of preamp tubes to improve the tone, the 7581A's make any combination sound awesome (lower tubes like the AY7 are sweeter and warmer, while using all ax7's now sounds smooth and articulate, instead of excessive).
You responded to my early Sunday morning email right away, and as in the past, the tubes were delivered
intact within two business days. You are definitely a man of his word, and honesty and integrity seem harder to find these days. You have my business for life.

Many Thanks,

Rick

JAN Philips 7581A's (super 6L6GC) (Back to review index)
Hey Mike,
Its Thursday night I just got the soldano back from the amp doctor , Just wanted to let you know the 7581A's sound great my amp has its sound back and better then ever. thanks for all your help....
Phil Urban....

JAN Philips 7581A's (super 6L6GC) (Back to review index)
G'day Mike

We've installed a set into a SF Twin Reverb (b'faced) and these sound fantastic - the bottom end clarity is astounding. This ain't no country Twin any more!

Thanks again
Willie Temm

JAN Philips 7581A's (super 6L6GC) (Back to review index)
Wanted to drop you a quick line to let you know I received the tubes (JAN Philips 7581A's) Friday. I put them in my 1963 Tremolux and took it it to have the bias adjusted. I picked it up today and turned it on to give it a try. I couldn't be more satisfied. These tubes are perfect for my taste. The sound is all there. Thanks for recommending them, you steered me right again. Feel free to use my experience to help others with their tube selections.

Sam

JAN Philips 7581A's (super 6L6GC) (Back to review index)
By the way, I got the JAN 7581A's in great shape. I played them only a short time (since I haven't connected with a reliable amp tech yet) and they sounded wonderful.....

Karl Melton

JAN Philips 7581A's (super 6L6GC) (Back to review index)
Mike:
...................
And now for the tubes. 7581As are really great. If possible I would like to order another matched pair of Philips 7581A.
Thanks for the great service.
All the best,
Dalibor Pavicic

JAN Philips 7581A's (super 6L6GC) (Back to review index)
Hi Mike

I have just receive the tubes (JAN Philips 7581A's).

I am now listening them, they seem to be very spatial and detailed. Of course i am sure after they are "well burned" they will sound better than now. Anyway i am glad about the first impressions.

Best regards

Joao

 

[mrid]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

Here's a few tips I've picked up over time.

-JJ power tubes
-9th Generation Chinese preamp tubes
-Dime the Mids
-Bass and Treble on zero
-Use the presence control in place of the treble control (I turn it up right to the point where it starts to "sizzle.")
-An SD-1 will tighten things up (I assume a stock SD-1, since that'll cut the bass a bit)

 

[FretFire]

Re: Maxing out my Rectoverb...

Where do you guys buy your Shuguang pre tubes?