Mellower humbucker for a bridge-only guitar?

[abbnyc]

I'm planning on getting a Traveler EG-1, but my hesitation is that it only has a bridge pickup, and comes with a SD Devastator. I play mostly jazz, and some miscellaneous pop, and on any other guitar never leave neck position. So I'm inevitably going to need to swap in a different pickup, ideally one that can moderate the sharpness of the bridge position.

Currently, the best SD options seem to be: Custom Custom, Benedetto A6, Benedetto B6. (Benedetto PAF says that it's "jazz voiced", but the EQ guide shows scooped mids, so I doubt that's the one). I've got some questions:

- What's the difference between the B6 and the A6?

- Why is the CC so trebley? I thought its Alnico 2 would be mellower sounding than the Alnico 5 of the Benedetto models.

- What's the difference between the bridge and "trembucker" models of CC? Would I get a mellower sound by going with the neck version, or is it compensated oppositely to make them more even, in which case I would do better with the bridge version?

My ideal sound is even, sweet & round, with a present mid-range and a chimey (I love a Rhodes) rather than piercing top end. I'm not expecting this to be a world class instrument, but I know how much the pickup makes the solidbody, so what would you recommend to get me close enough to that sound when I'm forced into the bridge position?

 

[Mincer]

The CC isn't trebly at all. But the best option is an Alnico Pro II here. And a Trembucker has a wider pole spacing for guitars with vibrato systems.

 

[nienturi]

I'm planning on getting a Traveler EG-1, but my hesitation is that it only has a bridge pickup, and comes with a SD Devastator. I play mostly jazz, and some miscellaneous pop, and on any other guitar never leave neck position. So I'm inevitably going to need to swap in a different pickup, ideally one that can moderate the sharpness of the bridge position.

Currently, the best SD options seem to be: Custom Custom, Benedetto A6, Benedetto B6. (Benedetto PAF says that it's "jazz voiced", but the EQ guide shows scooped mids, so I doubt that's the one). I've got some questions:

- What's the difference between the B6 and the A6?

- Why is the CC so trebley? I thought its Alnico 2 would be mellower sounding than the Alnico 5 of the Benedetto models.

- What's the difference between the bridge and "trembucker" models of CC? Would I get a mellower sound by going with the neck version, or is it compensated oppositely to make them more even, in which case I would do better with the bridge version?

My ideal sound is even, sweet & round, with a present mid-range and a chimey (I love a Rhodes) rather than piercing top end. I'm not expecting this to be a world class instrument, but I know how much the pickup makes the solidbody, so what would you recommend to get me close enough to that sound when I'm forced into the bridge position?

I believe Air Norton in the bridge can suit your needs. You may only need a little adjustment with your tone knob. From Duncan line more than a decade ago i had adviced a luthier friend Seth Lover set for his full or semi hollow body jazz guitars.He and his customers were so happy with the results.

 

[abbnyc]

The CC isn't trebly at all. But the best option is an Alnico Pro II here. And a Trembucker has a wider pole spacing for guitars with vibrato systems.

The audio sample on the SD page for it is very bright and trebley. Very little low end or warmth. Is that not representative of its sound? Even their little EQ guideline suggests it has lots of highs and mids but very little lows.

 

[freefrog]

I'm planning on getting a Traveler EG-1, but my hesitation is that it only has a bridge pickup, and comes with a SD Devastator. I play mostly jazz, and some miscellaneous pop, and on any other guitar never leave neck position. So I'm inevitably going to need to swap in a different pickup, ideally one that can moderate the sharpness of the bridge position.

Currently, the best SD options seem to be: Custom Custom, Benedetto A6, Benedetto B6. (Benedetto PAF says that it's "jazz voiced", but the EQ guide shows scooped mids, so I doubt that's the one). I've got some questions:

- What's the difference between the B6 and the A6?

- Why is the CC so trebley? I thought its Alnico 2 would be mellower sounding than the Alnico 5 of the Benedetto models.

- What's the difference between the bridge and "trembucker" models of CC? Would I get a mellower sound by going with the neck version, or is it compensated oppositely to make them more even, in which case I would do better with the bridge version?

My ideal sound is even, sweet & round, with a present mid-range and a chimey (I love a Rhodes) rather than piercing top end. I'm not expecting this to be a world class instrument, but I know how much the pickup makes the solidbody, so what would you recommend to get me close enough to that sound when I'm forced into the bridge position?

If it was for me, I'd probably try to mod the guitar by putting some flat mount humbucker in neck position. Like an Armstrong Slimbucker, for instance.

Also, I'd keep in mind that passive pickups are tonally shaped by external factors: pots resistance, capacitance depending on the length of the cable used. Useful reminder: http://buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/
[BTW, many things can be done with passive LRC filters going further than what Lemme shows in his pic. 9... but I'm not sure the electronic cavity would be large enough to host such circuits in this case].

Another idea would be to mount a GK3 and to use a relatively small Roland device like the GP10, whose guitar modeling gives access to nice Jazz tones IME.

The most advanced solution would be to keep the guitar stock and to use a dedicated EQ or impulse response filtering its tone, to make it sound closer to a neck HB. Would require a modeler or profiler with flexible input EQ and/or IR loader (Valeton GP100 or Mvave Tank-G / Black Box are small digital units with such tone shaping tools and costing around 100 bucks or less... the most difficult here would be to find the right EQ setting or IR to emulate a neck PU Jazz tone but I consider that as doable, at least theoretically).

Good luck in your quest.

 

[Mincer]

The audio sample on the SD page for it is very bright and trebley. Very little low end or warmth. Is that not representative of its sound? Even their little EQ guideline suggests it has lots of highs and mids but very little lows.

No, I'd say that it isn't representative. The CC is essentially a frowny-face EQ. Lots of mids. Mids more than anything. It is my favorite bridge humbucker, and I have it in several guitars. It is warm and buttery, not particularly tight in the lows, but absolutely not piercing in the highs. Thing is, it isn't especially dynamic or as touch-sensitive as a lower output pickup. It is great with distortion, but I wouldn't pick it for cleaner styles.

 

[hamerfan]

First: a lot people mix up treble and high mids. Second: in my book the treble content does not come with different magnets but with the coil. More windings, less highs. The magnet works more on the mids. With more mids the pickups sound fuller and less „trebley“, but it isn‘t less trebley, it has more mids.
So in my book the CC is bright, but has more mids.
My advice: If you want a mellower humbucker, use a 1nF cap from hot to ground. This is what Hendix did all the time: he used very long curly cables together with some pedals, which had an capacitance of about 1.5 nF altogether.

 

[abbnyc]

If it was for me, I'd probably try to mod the guitar by putting some flat mount humbucker in neck position. Like an Armstrong Slimbucker, for instance.

Also, I'd keep in mind that passive pickups are tonally shaped by external factors: pots resistance, capacitance depending on the length of the cable used. Useful reminder: http://buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/
[BTW, many things can be done with passive LRC filters going further than what Lemme shows in his pic. 9... but I'm not sure the electronic cavity would be large enough to host such circuits in this case].

Another idea would be to mount a GK3 and to use a relatively small Roland device like the GP10, whose guitar modeling gives access to nice Jazz tones IME.

The most advanced solution would be to keep the guitar stock and to use a dedicated EQ or impulse response filtering its tone, to make it sound closer to a neck HB. Would require a modeler or profiler with flexible input EQ and/or IR loader (Valeton GP100 or Mvave Tank-G / Black Box are small digital units with such tone shaping tools and costing around 100 bucks or less... the most difficult here would be to find the right EQ setting or IR to emulate a neck PU Jazz tone but I consider that as doable, at least theoretically).

Good luck in your quest.

Good thought about pot resistance! I'll have to look into that.

It's a peculiarly designed little guitar, and it wouldn't be possible to mod in a neck pickup. But I also don't need it to replicate the sound of a good jazz neck-position tone, it's a practice & travel instrument. I just want to get the obligatory bridge position sounding as tamed and friendly as is viable with a PU change.

 

[abbnyc]

Thanks everybody for your input! Please feel free to keep it coming.

Anyone know the difference between the B6 & the A6, tonally?

 

[freefrog]

Good thought about pot resistance! I'll have to look into that.

It's a peculiarly designed little guitar, and it wouldn't be possible to mod in a neck pickup. But I also don't need it to replicate the sound of a good jazz neck-position tone, it's a practice & travel instrument. I just want to get the obligatory bridge position sounding as tamed and friendly as is viable with a PU change.

FWIW, the neck PU that I was evoking was a flat mount model...

https://www.armstrongmusic.co.uk/products/slimbucker-jazz-guitar-pickup-neck-mount

Also and to complete the landscape, here is an example of what happens to passive pickups with cable capacitance:

https://youtu.be/4BmkaS91NHQ?si=QF_Wd2BKRGn5QEtm&t=562

But you don't need to add cable for that. As mentioned by Hamerfan, a cap from hot to ground will do the same. Count 37pF to 45pF per foot of cable to mimic (so a 3.9nF or 4.7nF capacitor would have the same tonal effect than 100' added ft of cable, for instance).

Again, good luck in your quest.

 

[Spaghetti Bolo]

If you want a neck humbucker sound then install a jazz style shallow humbucker, as Freefrog has already suggested. Buy it, install it, the end.

 

[abbnyc]

FWIW, the neck PU that I was evoking was a flat mount model...

https://www.armstrongmusic.co.uk/products/slimbucker-jazz-guitar-pickup-neck-mount

Totally got that, I guess I could do some measurements, but I the main issue would be that the guitar is made so the tuning heads are in the middle of the body. It's weird, and probably why they just use a bridge pup. I think even the flat mount you're talking about might get in the way of accessing them. Thanks for the clarification, though!

 

[hamerfan]

Thanks everybody for your input! Please feel free to keep it coming.

Anyone know the difference between the B6 & the A6, tonally?

check here

https://www.seymourduncan.com/single-product/benedetto-b6

and here

https://www.seymourduncan.com/single-product/benedetto-a6

I have the floating version of the a6 which is called s6 and can confirm it is naturally-voiced, so the b6 should be fatter. The Benedetto PAF should be very similar to a 59 B.

 

[Artie]

PATB-1.