Mesa 12" black shadow
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Lewguitar
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Re: Mesa 12" black shadow
To me, it's a little like an Electro Voice EVM 12.
To me, it's a little like an Electro Voice EVM 12.
Al.C
New member
Re: Mesa 12" black shadow
THe EVM was refered to as a Black Shadow as weel . It has a huge ceramic magnet, 200 watt, clear and crisp. THe standard Black shadow I am sure you are are referrin to is a celestion and much darker sounding, good bass, smooth upper mids and highs.screamingdaisy said:
Re: Mesa 12" black shadow
WAIT! WHICH ONE? They made a 150w one in the 80s
which is similar to the EV, but a little smoother, less harsh, more organic, and has a decent break up over the favored 12L - (this was in the 80s)
As someone said, the 90w model now made is similar in idea to the 80w Celestion, HOWEVER, it's more brown sounding, looser, has a nicer breakup, and more open than the 80.
The only knock I have on the 90w is that it is too sweet. It definitely gives MOJO back to the Mark series amps. I've used it with Marshalls, etc and it's decently bassy, sounds best in OPEN BACK, and its pretty natural sounding. Not as bad ass in the mids as a V30 or as vintage sounding as a G12H30
BTW I am not much of a fan of the Celestion 80 - they sound sterile to me. I DO like the 90w
WAIT! WHICH ONE? They made a 150w one in the 80s
which is similar to the EV, but a little smoother, less harsh, more organic, and has a decent break up over the favored 12L - (this was in the 80s)
As someone said, the 90w model now made is similar in idea to the 80w Celestion, HOWEVER, it's more brown sounding, looser, has a nicer breakup, and more open than the 80.
The only knock I have on the 90w is that it is too sweet. It definitely gives MOJO back to the Mark series amps. I've used it with Marshalls, etc and it's decently bassy, sounds best in OPEN BACK, and its pretty natural sounding. Not as bad ass in the mids as a V30 or as vintage sounding as a G12H30
BTW I am not much of a fan of the Celestion 80 - they sound sterile to me. I DO like the 90w
Boogie Bill
New member
Re: Mesa 12" black shadow
All Mesa speakers carry the name "Black Shadow". So, there are several "Black Shadow" speakers: The "Black Shadow"/Celestion C90; the Black Shadow/EVM 12; the Black Shadow MS-12 (by Eminence); as well as a 50-watt Black Shadow found in some of the Caliber amps (I don't know this one's mfg., sorry.)
I think the Black Shadow/C90 is a re-worked Celestion Lead 80. They have used these for a a long time, at least since the early 1980's. They used them in a lot of amps, like the Heartbreaker, and now the Lonestar--they can be found in various configurations in most of the old Mesa 412 Half-Back cabs.
The 412 Half-Back cabs are often found in the open-back top half of this 412, with either the 150-watt MS-12s OR the 200-watt EVMs in the bottom. The C-90 does not come AFTER the EVM as one poster claims above--it is a contemporary.
EVMs weigh a ton, as you can imagine and they are very expensive; and being capable of handling 200 watts--they don't break up. Highs, mids, lows--its all there. They are great in the high-power combos, like the Mark IIIs and Mark IVs. In the 112 Theile cabs, they add tremendous punch and projection to these rigs--enough to rival and put to shame most 412s! My fave speaker in a Boogie combo. Mesa used up the last of their EVMs about 2 years ago. Theile cabs are still available, but now come standard with the C-90. The C-90 was a lower-cost option for the Theile 112 for many years.
The MS-12 is a good sounding speaker, though it is very heavy in the lower mids, giving it a really thick tone. I had a set of these speakers with a Dean Markley brand in an old Fender Bandmaster 212, and they killed with my 50-watt JCM 800--really smoothed out the edgy highs. Mesa used up the last of these in the mid-1980s, as I recall. They also weigh a TON.
The little 50-watt Vintage 12s used in the Calibers, were pretty good sounding in those amps, as I recall--but they too disappeared in the 80's. Pretty rare, I think. These might also be a Celestion, now that I think about it.
The C90 and Celestion's Vintage 30 have now become Mesa's standard speakers. In combos like Mesa's Wide-Body Mark IV, the C90 gives a more "vintage" tone with more breakup. My impression is that compared to the Vintage 30, is that it has a little more highs and lows, with a little less mids--giving it a nice amount of "cut". I think the 412 C90/EVM halfback cab might be the best sounding 412 of all time, IMHO. I love mine, and with my 200-watt Mark III Coliseum head it is a devastating, toneful rig.
That's about all I can tell you about the Mesa Black Shadow Speakers. Your Number ONe task is going to be determining WHICH Black Shadow you are referring to. I hope this information helps, but you can always give the guys at Mesa Boogie a call if you need more info--they are happy to help.
Good Luck!
Bill
All Mesa speakers carry the name "Black Shadow". So, there are several "Black Shadow" speakers: The "Black Shadow"/Celestion C90; the Black Shadow/EVM 12; the Black Shadow MS-12 (by Eminence); as well as a 50-watt Black Shadow found in some of the Caliber amps (I don't know this one's mfg., sorry.)
I think the Black Shadow/C90 is a re-worked Celestion Lead 80. They have used these for a a long time, at least since the early 1980's. They used them in a lot of amps, like the Heartbreaker, and now the Lonestar--they can be found in various configurations in most of the old Mesa 412 Half-Back cabs.
The 412 Half-Back cabs are often found in the open-back top half of this 412, with either the 150-watt MS-12s OR the 200-watt EVMs in the bottom. The C-90 does not come AFTER the EVM as one poster claims above--it is a contemporary.
EVMs weigh a ton, as you can imagine and they are very expensive; and being capable of handling 200 watts--they don't break up. Highs, mids, lows--its all there. They are great in the high-power combos, like the Mark IIIs and Mark IVs. In the 112 Theile cabs, they add tremendous punch and projection to these rigs--enough to rival and put to shame most 412s! My fave speaker in a Boogie combo. Mesa used up the last of their EVMs about 2 years ago. Theile cabs are still available, but now come standard with the C-90. The C-90 was a lower-cost option for the Theile 112 for many years.
The MS-12 is a good sounding speaker, though it is very heavy in the lower mids, giving it a really thick tone. I had a set of these speakers with a Dean Markley brand in an old Fender Bandmaster 212, and they killed with my 50-watt JCM 800--really smoothed out the edgy highs. Mesa used up the last of these in the mid-1980s, as I recall. They also weigh a TON.
The little 50-watt Vintage 12s used in the Calibers, were pretty good sounding in those amps, as I recall--but they too disappeared in the 80's. Pretty rare, I think. These might also be a Celestion, now that I think about it.
The C90 and Celestion's Vintage 30 have now become Mesa's standard speakers. In combos like Mesa's Wide-Body Mark IV, the C90 gives a more "vintage" tone with more breakup. My impression is that compared to the Vintage 30, is that it has a little more highs and lows, with a little less mids--giving it a nice amount of "cut". I think the 412 C90/EVM halfback cab might be the best sounding 412 of all time, IMHO. I love mine, and with my 200-watt Mark III Coliseum head it is a devastating, toneful rig.
That's about all I can tell you about the Mesa Black Shadow Speakers. Your Number ONe task is going to be determining WHICH Black Shadow you are referring to. I hope this information helps, but you can always give the guys at Mesa Boogie a call if you need more info--they are happy to help.
Good Luck!
Bill
primo
New member
Re: Mesa 12" black shadow
What Bill said! Also, check here http://store.yahoo.com/mesa/gigbagandsli.html
Cheers Primo.
What Bill said! Also, check here http://store.yahoo.com/mesa/gigbagandsli.html
Cheers Primo.
Lava Man
New member
Re: Mesa 12" black shadow
Bill is correct on the "Black Shadow" history - you need know which one you have.
As an example, I bought a Mark IV combo in 1992 that had a Black Shadow EVM12L in it, I sold it in 1995 when I was newly married and strapped for cash with aggreement that I would buy another one, which I did in 2000. This time the "Black Shadow" was a celestion and it sounded like doo-doo! So I found a used EVM12L on eBay and fixed the problem - EV has just re-released the EVM12L, which IMO is probably about the best all-around speaker for rock and blues, although I am now using Mojotone BVH30's (a speaker extremely similar to the Celestion G12H30) and I love them.
Bill is correct on the "Black Shadow" history - you need know which one you have.
As an example, I bought a Mark IV combo in 1992 that had a Black Shadow EVM12L in it, I sold it in 1995 when I was newly married and strapped for cash with aggreement that I would buy another one, which I did in 2000. This time the "Black Shadow" was a celestion and it sounded like doo-doo! So I found a used EVM12L on eBay and fixed the problem - EV has just re-released the EVM12L, which IMO is probably about the best all-around speaker for rock and blues, although I am now using Mojotone BVH30's (a speaker extremely similar to the Celestion G12H30) and I love them.
Boogie Bill
New member
Re: Mesa 12" black shadow
I don't see why not. I guess emotionally, we just associate Marshalls with Celestions so much that anything else seems--weird.
I've heard that Jimi and Duane Allman liked their Marshalls with JBLs.
Bottom line: If you like the way it sounds, go for it!
Bill
OlinMusic said:
I don't see why not. I guess emotionally, we just associate Marshalls with Celestions so much that anything else seems--weird.
I've heard that Jimi and Duane Allman liked their Marshalls with JBLs.
Bottom line: If you like the way it sounds, go for it!
Bill
