Mesa 4x12 cab idiosyncrasies.

[NegativeEase]

I haven't research this much on the original intent yet but my band mate just bought used Mesa Cab 4x12 that has the stock Celestions C90s up top (open back) and some giant either emminence or EVs down below (closed back) -not sure yet.

The problem I see is the speakers that angle toward you on stage sound NOTHING like the EV/Emminence speakers propagating straight out (Closed back) below

-and of course the EV/Emminece speaker are super bright and crunky and are what the audience at the stage front will endure during a show -not the warmer more mellow Celestions C90s (relatively speaking as they aren't mellow compared to most other hard rock 12s).

I see this as an issue when you can't hear anything close to what the audience is going to hear IMO.

If it were a closed back all the way around, I'd just move one speaker and down to get a mix of each at the listening position (Slant) and a mix toward the audience

-however with one set of speakers selected and tuned for open back and the other set for closed back -I don't think this is a great option either.

Thoughts or experiences with this?

 

[dave74]

I would X-pattern the old "half-back".

They both can sound good in the other's position. (C90 in a closed and EV in an open)

I would not be totally shocked if the stock EVMs have been swapped-out for something else,,,,,due to their value and people's greed, but maybe they are still stock.



edit;
This thread reminds me of Boogie Bill. He has one of these cabs iirc. I hope he is doing OK, it's been awhile since I've noticed him posting.

 

[NegativeEase]

I would X-pattern the old "half-back".

They both can sound good in the other's position. (C90 in a closed and EV in an open)

I would not be totally shocked if the stock EVMs have been swapped-out for something else,,,,,due to their value and people's greed, but maybe they are still stock.

Thanks, If you think these both work in the opposite back config -that would be something I would try (X Pattern)

I just cant imagine not hearing what your map it kicking out to the audience.

I'll open the bottom and see whats in there.

 

[some_dude]

What you’re hearing on stage isn’t what the audience will hear anyway, Even if it had all the same speakers, 4x12 up close sounds different than it does 30 feet away, and if you put an SM57 on it and pipe it through the PA it definitely sounds nothing like it does on stage.

What I would do is stand 30+ feet out and find settings that worked for me, then tolerate that it isn’t going to sound perfect when I’m close to it. Or flip it on its side so you can hear both speakers.

 

[dave74]

Yeah what some_dude said; Flip it on it's side. Don't even need an iron for that one.

In that case I'd probably install large rubber feet on the side too. That will get the two "down" speakers off the floor enough to not sound too woofy.

 

[Bogner]

I am not a fan of open back cabinets nor slant cabinets. I doubt the "closed back" portion of the cab is truly isolated. From an overall cab perspective, you are going to get "influence" on the top from the bottom and on the bottom from the top.

I doubt the audience will know what they are or are not hearing. They may like or dislike it though.

For me and how I approach things sonically, that cab is a nightmare waiting to happen.

YMMV

 

[some_dude]

I am not a fan of open back cabinets nor slant cabinets. I doubt the "closed back" portion of the cab is truly isolated. From an overall cab perspective, you are going to get "influence" on the top from the bottom and on the bottom from the top.

I doubt the audience will know what they are or are not hearing. They may like or dislike it though.

For me and how I approach things sonically, that cab is a nightmare waiting to happen.

YMMV

The old Boogie cabs were basically two 2x12s in separate compartments. I think the idea was that the top cab spread the sound around while the bottom cab brought some thump.

 

[dave74]

Wouldn't be very hard to make the top into a closed-back too, but in that case I would indeed do the x-pattern and leave the cab upright, but then again I really like slants.

 

[NegativeEase]

What you’re hearing on stage isn’t what the audience will hear anyway, Even if it had all the same speakers, 4x12 up close sounds different than it does 30 feet away, and if you put an SM57 on it and pipe it through the PA it definitely sounds nothing like it does on stage.

What I would do is stand 30+ feet out and find settings that worked for me, then tolerate that it isn’t going to sound perfect when I’m close to it. Or flip it on its side so you can hear both speakers.

I'm referring to the people at stage front (under the fills), between the mains and not hearing the mains. They will get blasted with the bottom of a 4x12 everytime

 

[NegativeEase]

Yeah what some_dude said; Flip it on it's side. Don't even need an iron for that one.

In that case I'd probably install large rubber feet on the side too. That will get the two "down" speakers off the floor enough to not sound too woofy.

Yeah, not a bad idea at all.

 

[NegativeEase]

Wouldn't be very hard to make the top into a closed-back too, but in that case I would indeed do the x-pattern and leave the cab upright, but then again I really like slants.

I found today the Mesa and some aftermarket places make a birch tolex piece for this to drop in....

or make one to your point.

 

[dave74]

I found today the Mesa and some aftermarket places make a birch tolex piece for this to drop in....

or make one to your point.

Being both busy and lazy I would just buy one lol.

 

[some_dude]

I'm referring to the people at stage front (under the fills), between the mains and not hearing the mains. They will get blasted with the bottom of a 4x12 everytime

Most of those people stand there because they want to be blasted by the 4x12.

 

[NegativeEase]

Most of those people stand there because they want to be blasted by the 4x12.

-It's fine and it's encouraged that they want to be blasted, my point is the slant tone doesn't match the bottom tone, and the bottom EVs are super bright and crunchy harsh compared to the upper Celestions -so it's not a balance you can manage live easily if you can't hear it down on the floor like the uppers

Tipping the cab is an ok solution, but I think I'm going to experiment with an X pattern if we use the cabinet.

 

[Demanic]

-It's fine and it's encouraged that they want to be blasted, my point is the slant tone doesn't match the bottom tone, and the bottom EVs are super bright and crunchy harsh compared to the upper Celestions -so it's not a balance you can manage live easily if you can't hear it down on the floor like the uppers

Tipping the cab is an ok solution, but I think I'm going to experiment with an X pattern if we use the cabinet.

Why not just flip the cab upside down? Then the slant tone will be bouncing off the floor.

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