Metal amp features - I want to be educated

[JohnnyGuitar]

I'm just curious here. After having a pretty long conversation about gear with guys from a punk/metak band here.
Their amp philosgophy was that the important thing is wattage and big cabs. Can't have good metal tone from 1x12 for example...

What do you think? do you need at least two speakers or a half stack to get good metal tone when playing in a medium venue? are there any other important features a high gain amp should have? certain tubes? no tubes? I know that Dime used a solid state for most of his career and those guys also went for solid state amps...

 

[Mephis]

Re: Metal amp features - I want to be educated

I'm sure alot of people will post about how they play metal with a 6.5inch speaker in a $100 throw away combo.

But if you want the truth, yes big cabs will give you the thumb for metal. Tubes or solid state doesn't matter, depending on your taste. Wattage doesn't matter that much either as long as you can be heard and not kill small children.

 

[JohnnyGuitar]

Re: Metal amp features - I want to be educated

Not kill small children? then what's the point?

6.5 inch speaker seems small for most styles...

Here's another thing- most amps need the volume raised to a minimum level before they start to sound better. Won't a smaller amp, with the volume on 10, sound better then a JCM on a 4x12 stack with the volumde turned to 2?

 

[Mephis]

Re: Metal amp features - I want to be educated

That depends on the preamp structure in the amp. My 6505 opens up at 1 and sounds just as good as fully cranked. You do not ALWAYS have to crank a tube amp to get good tone.

Plus 100watt amps always seem to sound beefier due to the larger transformers, reguardless of the extra volume.

And if you sat a blues junior beside a JCM800 half stack, and played both at equal volumes, the JCM would still sound better IMO.

 

[Binnerscot]

Re: Metal amp features - I want to be educated

The watts give you headroom for dynamics, high gain preamps are good (tube or solid state), and a good sealed 2x12 will give similar results to a sealed 4x12. The closed back with a minimum of two speakers should give you a slight scoop in the mids and some thump.

 

[DankStar]

Re: Metal amp features - I want to be educated

I'm just curious here. After having a pretty long conversation about gear with guys from a punk/metak band here.
Their amp philosgophy was that the important thing is wattage and big cabs. Can't have good metal tone from 1x12 for example...

What do you think? do you need at least two speakers or a half stack to get good metal tone when playing in a medium venue? are there any other important features a high gain amp should have? certain tubes? no tubes? I know that Dime used a solid state for most of his career and those guys also went for solid state amps...

Well, the clubs only used to mic one speaker out of my 4-12" cab, but it looked cool sitting there on stage and I was able to use it as a monitor for myself (which a 2-12" or 1-12" might not be as effective at). A 1-12" would work mic'ed in a club just fine. At practice, a 1-12" would get drowned out though, and a 2-12" might even too. I'd say stick with the rule of thumb of 50-100 watts (tube) and 75-150 watts solid state/digital and a 4-12" cab to push more air. The 150-watt tube amps and 300-watt solid state amps are a little overkill.

 

[JohnnyGuitar]

Re: Metal amp features - I want to be educated

So let me get it straight. Metal bands who carry around 4x12 cabs to play in a club in front of 25 listeners are just breaking their own back?

I mean, I get by well with 1x12 and sometimes less... but I don't play metal.

 

[Animal]

Re: Metal amp features - I want to be educated

So let me get it straight. Metal bands who carry around 4x12 cabs to play in a club in front of 25 listeners are just breaking their own back?

4x12's have a certain thump you can't quite with anything smaller. Sometimes it can be overkill but at other times it is the epitome of "big" guitar. All depends on the situation.

I mean, I get by well with 1x12 and sometimes less... but I don't play metal.

Word on the street is that the old 1x12" Mesa Thiele cabs can easily keep up with quad boxes in volume and cut through the band all while packing an impressive punch.

Personally I think a high quality 2x12" is the best compromise if your not keen on lugging around a huge box.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Metal amp features - I want to be educated

That depends on the preamp structure in the amp. My 6505 opens up at 1 and sounds just as good as fully cranked. You do not ALWAYS have to crank a tube amp to get good tone.



And if you sat a blues junior beside a JCM800 half stack, and played both at equal volumes, the JCM would still sound better IMO.

WOW - i've NEVER heard anyone make such two bold statements :no:


. . . be warned, you might get some heat because of those !

Obviously i can not agree with you on those - to each his own, 'an all that !!!

To my ears, both pre-amp and pwer amps need to "stretch" their lesgs to sound good to ME - others(...like you ) will differ !

Getting back to the question !

My dream amp set-up is a Hot-Rodded BassmanLTD & an ORANGE AD30TC.

BUT, for the time being, i am getting a ($250-$350 incl. air frieght) Peavey VTM 60W head, and i will pair it w. a custom build (by a pro cab builder) 2x12 cab, because i think a 1x12 and 60watt head will sound handi-caped for my idea of slow-groove Stoner Rock, (that is what i want to use it for anyways !)

More speakers DO move more air - FACT !

Why do you think a max'd Bassman sound sooooo sexy ?
Yoy will not get the same tone n'feel if you connect that beauty to a high-quality 1x12 cab

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Metal amp features - I want to be educated

I'd say stick with the rule of thumb of 50-100 watts (tube) and 75-150 watts solid state/digital and a 4-12" cab to push more air. The 150-watt tube amps and 300-watt solid state amps are a little overkill.

. . . if you think that is OVER-Kill, what do you think of the all-valve 300WATT Blue Voodoo's ???

Now THAT is overkill to me - BIG TIME !!!