Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

phil_104

phil_104

Cheesesteakologist
Hey guys. Haven't posted in this room in a while. Good to see you all.

So this is my situation : A while back I got a Gibson J-45. It came stock with the LR. Baggs Element Active pickup system, with the sound hole volume control. It's become my favorite guitar in the world. So far so good right?

Well, I HATE the sound that I am getting from this guitar when I try to use it in a band setting. The sound is thin, boring and the signal feels extremely weak. Disappointing for a guitar that sounds so alive and full. I usually plug into a DI, then into the PA.

So what's the solution? I have a few different options.
1) Change the pickup : I was thinking about the M1 active by the same company. I hear good things about it, see a lot of players I like using it, and it seems fairly easy to swap. My fear is that I'll get the same problems once plugged in.
2) Get an acoustic amplifier : Something like a fender, that has a DI out that I can send to the board. My fear here is that the pickup will still sound horrible through an amp.
3) Placing a microphone in front of myself : I really don't want to do this to be honest, but so far, an SM57 in from of the guitar has given me the best results.

Ideas? Advice? Help?
 
Re: Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

No.

I am VERY new at playing acoustic guitars live. Used a piezo electric back in the day, or microphones in front of classical guitars.

Is that what I want to look into? Caus right now I am running the acoustic, into a DI, then to the PA.

If so, any suggestions that won't break the bank?
 
Re: Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

I can't say I know much about them myself, more that they exist than anything else. I know LE Baggs do some of their own, but they're far from the only ones. I'd certainly look into them before changing anything else.
 
Re: Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

Disclaimer: I do not perform with an acoustic guitar...and if I did, I would probably use the onboard electronics in the same or similar fashion as you are now.

Now, as a fan of acoustic music and acoustic instruments I must say that I've never heard a great acoustic guitar tone come from an instrument using some kind of pickup. Serviceable tone, yes. Great tone, no. It's my opinion that great American made acoustic guitars deserve to be heard through a quality microphone.

I know there are systems, and LR Baggs makes them, that use onboard microphones of some kind, but I don't know much about them. Maybe that is the best of both worlds?

Good luck!
 
Re: Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

phil_104 said:
No.

I am VERY new at playing acoustic guitars live. Used a piezo electric back in the day, or microphones in front of classical guitars.

Is that what I want to look into? Caus right now I am running the acoustic, into a DI, then to the PA.

If so, any suggestions that won't break the bank?
Click to expand...

Hmmm... that pickup is supposed to sound pretty good. I've run sound for a couple of dudes that have had them installed and they sounded really good.

A quality DI is essential but you are going to need something that is dedicated to shaping the unique tones of acoustic guitar amplification. Since you already have an excellent L.R. Baggs unit, one of these would improve your sound in a pretty big way.

My memory isn't the best but I thought that I didn't need to DI those players that had the element active systems... I could be wrong, but I usually don't need to DI active pickups unless the musician has to run a long cable length.
 
Re: Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

The solution is Mama Bear. Check it out. And make sure to watch the videos.

It's a really amazing piece of gear. And you'll never have to worry about mic placement or the feedback issues a mic creates.

mama_bear_pic.jpg
 
Re: Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

+1 to Mama Bear. Also check out the Fishman Aura.

Mic-ing an acoustic live is an exercise in futility.
 
Re: Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

Evan Skopp said:
The solution is Mama Bear. Check it out. And make sure to watch the videos.

It's a really amazing piece of gear. And you'll never have to worry about mic placement or the feedback issues a mic creates.

mama_bear_pic.jpg
Click to expand...

ratherdashing said:
+1 to Mama Bear. Also check out the Fishman Aura.

Mic-ing an acoustic live is an exercise in futility.
Click to expand...

Thanks guys.

Sounds pretty much like what I need for the element pickup. I will be placing my order for a Mama Bear tomorrow.
 
Re: Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

I really don't think its your pickup. The LR Baggs system is a decent system. You need a preamp or an acoustic amp with an EQ. You just need to get more bottom out of the guitar. Keep in mind acoustic instruments are meant to played acoustic. What you are trying to do is to get your sound loud enough to be heard over drums, electric guitars and whatever else is in the mix. I use a Genz Benz Shenandoah 80W acoustic amp. This amp also has a line out so I can go direct to the deck if necessary. The nice thing about an acoustic amp is you can play small venues through the amp or larger venues through the PA & the amp still works as a great monitor. Now its not the best as far as tone because all acoustic ampification systems are going to color the sound to some degree. I personally don't think you will get a better sound then a great mike in front of the soundhole of your Gibson, but that in most cases is not practical. You can't move too far from the mike and that stifles your stage presence to some degree. I think a decent acoustic amp will solve much of your problem. Take your guitar to a good "acoustic" music store and plug in to a bunch and see which one works best for you.
 
Re: Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

I have not ever heard a live acoustic that sounded "acoustic" unless it was mic'd, from local bar bands and open mic people all the way up to the Rolling Stones. I say if you want it to sound "acoustic," use a mic live. It's not an exercise in futility; you just need to learn how to play with a mic on you. You can't move around that much. Everything in live sound is some sort of an exercise in compromise; if you want the sweetest acoustic sound, you give up moving around in order to get it, and vice versa.

You can also use a lavalier mic clipped on the guitar (and/or your shirt) for a decent sound, and there are internal mics you can install from the strap peg.

As for plug in pickups, my favorite is a Sunrise, which is a clip-on soundhole pickup that does no harm to the guitar; you just end up with a wire hanging out of the soundhole, which you can tuck under your strap. Looks ugly, but requires no drilling of the guitar. When I need to plug in, that (in addition to a mic on a boom stand) is what I use. But nothings sounds truly "acoustic" except for a mic.
 
Last edited:
Re: Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

For live work, a soundhole magnetic pickup fattens the tone up considerably. There are products out there (fishman springs to mind) that allow you to blend the piezo and magnetic pickups. Ive been using piezos since the 80s and have hated them the whole time. I know they are a necessary evil, but magnetic pickups work surprisingly well in a live band context and even tho they dont sound the same as the pure acoustic tone, they do produce a sweet sound, and lets face it....piezos dont produce a pure acoustic tone either! I hate that hard glassy treble and blaring honky midrange that piezos produce. For solo artists, a mic is feasible, but in a band context they are a real headace.
Also...try running the axe thru a nice clean fender type tube amp. I know they are not built for it specifically, but i like the sound better than via DI and PA speakers and it will make you more comfortable with your onstage sound. You mught find that purely the magnetic pickup alone in this configuration will deliver a sweet and fat sound.
Ive used PA's, powered monitors, acoustic amps etc. I like this (clean tube amp) sound best. If i could use magnetic pickups for a nylon, i would go that way too, but seeing as you are using a steel string it's a lot easier to get a great sound.
 
Last edited:
Re: Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

I guess I have been doing everything wrong then. I use an SD Woody SC into my pedal board and amp. I get some really good sounds, and the acoustic is more for super squeaky cleans than anything else.
 
Re: Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

If you like acoustic guitar soundhole pickups, that M1 you mentioned is a great choice.

I also like the K&K mini's that super glue to the bridge plate directly under your saddle, inside your guitar.

Those are the two systems that I like best and I use the K&K preamp.

The Red Eye preamp is also a really good acoustic guitar preamp. Just google it for more info. Very natural tone.
 
Re: Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

ItsaBass said:
I have not ever heard a live acoustic that sounded "acoustic" unless it was mic'd, from local bar bands and open mic people all the way up to the Rolling Stones. I say if you want it to sound "acoustic," use a mic live. It's not an exercise in futility; you just need to learn how to play with a mic on you. You can't move around that much. Everything in live sound is some sort of an exercise in compromise; if you want the sweetest acoustic sound, you give up moving around in order to get it, and vice versa.

You can also use a lavalier mic clipped on the guitar (and/or your shirt) for a decent sound, and there are internal mics you can install from the strap peg.
Click to expand...

this only works if there isnt anything loud on stage. if its a solo performance than sure... but drums, bass, electric guitar etc. your doomed. youll never get enough volume before feedback and bleed will obviously be a problem

But nothings sounds truly "acoustic" except for a mic.
Click to expand...

youre right about that but in many situations its just not practical
 
Re: Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

jeremy said:
this only works if there isnt anything loud on stage. if its a solo performance than sure... but drums, bass, electric guitar etc. your doomed. youll never get enough volume before feedback and bleed will obviously be a problem



youre right about that but in many situations its just not practical
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to argue against using any other form of pickup but a mic. My point was simply that if you want it to sound like a traditional acoustic guitar, then you need to mic it...and if you can't mic it for some reason, then you need to compromise the traditional acoustic guitar sound.

Feedback can be a problem live (mainly when guitarists don't position themselves well in front of the mic, forcing you to raise the volume to compensate). But bleed isn't really much of a problem in those cases. When recording, yes, because it takes away the benefits of multi-track recording. But not live. In fact, I think bleed makes things sound better live. A little of this or that through the "wrong" mic gives a more natural sound, and it allows you to run certain mics lower. For instance, on a drum kit, the snare mic picks up some of the bass drum, which not only gives a less isolated sound, but also allows you to run the bass drum mic (the most feedback prone drum mic) a bit lower than if you didn't have the snare mic. And having the whole mix of amps and drums bleeding through the vocal mics can also be quite helpful sometimes. It gives a less artificial sound through the PA. Isolation in the studio allows you to do multitracking effectively, but too much isolation live sounds bad IMO. That's the number one thing that causes me to say a place has "bad sound."
 
Last edited:
Re: Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

The Trace Amulet system Jackson Browne uses is the best I've heard...but not cheap. Here's what one sounds like:



Jackson uses, I believe, an old SWR California Blonde amp. The old ones have Celestions.
 
Last edited:
Re: Mic'ing an acoustic guitar - ideas? New pickup, amp?

Acoustic amps while nice are just tiny PA systems. If it won't cut it through a PA and amp won't help.

Microphone? Yeah they can work but are a pain in the butt. So unless you've got a very experienced sound guy and lots of sound check time, forget it.

A new pickup system is your only real option. Magic digital simulator boxes are available from many companies but I'd want to start with a system that sounds decent right into the desk from the get go. Shame you've got a 2 and a half kilobuck guitar that didn't ship with something better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top