Mic'ing tip on a TSL 601

Markk

Markk

New member
I have the following:
Shure SM57 (and an SM58 on loan)
Shure cable
Fostex Recorder
Marshall TSL 601, wolverine speaker.

I generally like the clean sounds I get when I mic it up with the SM57. No problems there really.

But I find the distortion sounds are quite picky when putting a mic to them. Sound harsh. But I love the sound when I'm standing/sitting and playing with the amp facing me. Whole different story. I'm not scooping mids and the volume is at a loud conversation level.

Any tips or tricks to help bring out the best in the amp? Or is the wolverine speaker just not mic/SM57 friendly?
 
Re: Mic'ing tip on a TSL 601

My recipe for close-mic placement on a distorted / gain tone amp recording is:

70% from center to surround (Read: put the mic toward the outside of the speaker cone)

Distance from grillcloth = 0" (Read: put it right on the grillcloth)

Off-axis, angled to place the mic diaphragm perpendicular to the speaker cone itself (Read: disregard the plane of the baffle, aim the mic head on into the speaker cone itself)

I have had good results recording dirty tones this way. No harshness. The loudness principle / proximity effect is key in taming harshness --- get the mic close to the speaker. I have also taken grilles off of amps before to get the mic really, really close to the speaker.
 
Re: Mic'ing tip on a TSL 601

ImmortalSix said:
My recipe for close-mic placement on a distorted / gain tone amp recording is:

70% from center to surround (Read: put the mic toward the outside of the speaker cone)

Distance from grillcloth = 0" (Read: put it right on the grillcloth)

Off-axis, angled to place the mic diaphragm perpendicular to the speaker cone itself (Read: disregard the plane of the baffle, aim the mic head on into the speaker cone itself)

I have had good results recording dirty tones this way. No harshness. The loudness principle / proximity effect is key in taming harshness --- get the mic close to the speaker. I have also taken grilles off of amps before to get the mic really, really close to the speaker.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much what I do as well. Mic as close to the speaker as possible, move the mic further away from the center of the speaker to increase bass and closer to the dust cap to increase the treble.

Just pick a simple riff to play, set the mic up and record it, then play it back. Move the mic a very tiny amount (about an inch max), then repeat. Keep doing this until the sound you're getting matches with what you want. When you find the perfect spot mark it with some masking tape so you don't lose it again!
 
Re: Mic'ing tip on a TSL 601

GuitarStv said:
When you find the perfect spot mark it with some masking tape so you don't lose it again!
Click to expand...

big x2!

15133_806491003463_6201882_44993350_1490742_n.jpg
 
Re: Mic'ing tip on a TSL 601

ImmortalSix said:
My recipe for close-mic placement on a distorted / gain tone amp recording is:

70% from center to surround (Read: put the mic toward the outside of the speaker cone)

Distance from grillcloth = 0" (Read: put it right on the grillcloth)

Off-axis, angled to place the mic diaphragm perpendicular to the speaker cone itself (Read: disregard the plane of the baffle, aim the mic head on into the speaker cone itself)

I have had good results recording dirty tones this way. No harshness. The loudness principle / proximity effect is key in taming harshness --- get the mic close to the speaker. I have also taken grilles off of amps before to get the mic really, really close to the speaker.
Click to expand...

SM58 or SM57? (you didn't say what kind of mike you were using) I've got a SM58 but no SM57.
I'm gonna also buy a Samson C01 condenser.
Believe it or not, this inexpensive condenser has a good sound that can take a little bit of the "Erkel/nasal" sound out of vocals.
I'm thinking it would do good recording a small Line 6 amp at low levels.
 
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Re: Mic'ing tip on a TSL 601

ImmortalSix said:
big x2!

15133_806491003463_6201882_44993350_1490742_n.jpg
Click to expand...

How do you like that Black Heart there Hunter? I've been thinking of also trying to maybe trade/tweak the TSL for something else. Was looking at a dual terror (and then build a cab with a V30) or something from the black Heart Range. Not necessarily because I"m unhappy with the sound, but rather because I'd like to try something different (and maybe it would be easier to get a good mic'ed sound?) Maybe put in a Vintage 30 into the TSL and get ride of that Wolverine that's in there.
 
Re: Mic'ing tip on a TSL 601

I got rid of it about a year ago (traded for a 1996 Hot Rod DeVille 2x12) because it was kind of thin sounding.

I don't like the high / mid guitar sound, I like the big full thing, so I need more watts and more speakers than a little micro-stack could offer.

With JJ tubes, it was buzzy, fizzy, and generally...unimpressive.

I recorded some low /mid gain stuff with it so you can hear that, though:





And probably the best audio of the bunch, so you can hear what it sounded like: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=7882308
 
Re: Mic'ing tip on a TSL 601

TSL through wolverine is brash like that. The 57 just doesn't help.

Had a dsl through a spikey speaker; a seinheisser 609 tames it.
But so do darker speakers. =/
 
Re: Mic'ing tip on a TSL 601

RobSoundtrack said:
TSL through wolverine is brash like that. The 57 just doesn't help.

Had a dsl through a spikey speaker; a seinheisser 609 tames it.
But so do darker speakers. =/
Click to expand...

Say, something like a V30? (B/c God how I'm starting to get a little desperate and might get one)
 
Re: Mic'ing tip on a TSL 601

^^^^^ +12345!!!!!

You want dark (and awesome) go with Eminence Swamp Thang
My fav speaker atm.

Or for slightly less lows (so seemingly more open highs) get the Emi Texas Heat. Same design, different size magnet IIRC.
 
Re: Mic'ing tip on a TSL 601

Markk said:
Oh, I thought they were more scooped than mid-spiked.
Click to expand...

The V30 does have a mid bump to it and very good low end, it is a great sounding speaker.

Mic placement is key, once you get a mic situated the best you can (sounds the best on play back), you may have to re-EQ the amp a bit to bring it in line with the sound in your head.

Try this:

1. Looking directly at the speaker, dead center is brightest, Yngwie mics like this.

2. As you move the out towards the edge of the speaker the sound with get darker and the low end becomes more prominent.

3. Find the spot you like best...not the perfect sound but the "best" results

4. Start to "tip" the mic at an angle, this has a huge effect on the midrange and high end. Do this until you get the "best" results

5. Then try different distances from the speaker in the that spot and with that angle. As you move away, the sound will become more dull and distant sounding (a few inches makes a big difference)...I generally like it close.

6. Once you the mic in the best place possible for you, change the EQ and gain settings to get the best playback possible

7. Record your stuff, EQ at the channel to get the best "fit" into the mix. It is all ear, no science needed...but you may do a bit of low end roll-off to avoid build-up.

8. Compression becomes the key after this point. Some high gain tracks may not use any at all (or just a very, very light compression). 2.5:1 up to 4:1 (4:1 is a lot for over driven guitar tracks). Fast attack, fast release...this will bring out some brightness and mids accentuating the attack - this is used to "fit" the tracks into the rest of the mix. Listen closely to avoid "pumping". "Pumping" = too much compression.

You may want to set up a second mic for clean tones, it may require a different placement for the best sound.

You should get fairly good results, but don't expect a million dollar studio sound....but you can get pretty close these days.
 
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Re: Mic'ing tip on a TSL 601

Keep in mind for recording you want to use lower gain, and record it a few times with different gain amounts to make a nice thick od tone.
 
Re: Mic'ing tip on a TSL 601

Have a condenser to run right at the level and placement of your ear? Decent ones can be had for less than $100 these days.

If it sounds good to you there, it will most times also sound good to the mic. Mix that in with the 57 until you smile.
 
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Re: Mic'ing tip on a TSL 601

mwalluk said:
Keep in mind for recording you want to use lower gain, and record it a few times with different gain amounts to make a nice thick od tone.
Click to expand...

And then layer the takes? Or do you suggest recording one track and then off setting it by a few milliseconds during the mixing stage?


guitfiddle said:
Have a condenser to run right at the level and placement of your ear? Decent ones can be had for less than $100 these days.

If it sounds good to you there, it will most times also sound good to the mic. Mix that in with the 57 until you smile.
Click to expand...

Any one you suggest. I actually thought of this the other day but the SM57 didn't really do a good job of getting the sound in this way.
 
Re: Mic'ing tip on a TSL 601

Markk said:
And then layer the takes? Or do you suggest recording one track and then off setting it by a few milliseconds during the mixing stage?
Click to expand...


There are a lot of myths out there. This is one of the bigger ones. Yes, it has been done, but not for the results you are looking for. Try it, and then listen to it, you hear it thin out and start to sound out of phase and nasty.

Do two solid takes (as tight together as possible), pan one hard left and one hard right....that is 90%+ of your guitar tracks in rock and metal.

As far using less gain, that depends on what you are going for. Less gain may be the ticket to keep it from being mushy...if you currently use to much gain. If you are using levels that suite the sound and style, then by all means use the same for recording.


Markk said:
Any one you suggest. I actually thought of this the other day but the SM57 didn't really do a good job of getting the sound in this way.
Click to expand...

An SM57 is a small diaphram dynamic, it will not pick up the souce very well as it moves away from the source. Condensers work very well for distant sources such room mics, drum overheads, etc. They also pick up high frequencioes much better.

When you use more than one mic on a single source at the same time, you have to adjust for phase cancellation.
 
Re: Mic'ing tip on a TSL 601

I forgot to suggest a mic also:

R0DE NT1-A

These are great mics, not budget mics. This particular one is a little brighter than the vintage LDC designs, but so are today's mixes vs. those of yesteryear.
 
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