Miscellaneous speaker questions.

[Guitar Toad]

Let's say you want an amp with bright tone but without piercing highs. I was told by a guy in a shop that the way to avoid the piercing highs is to use a 4x10 or 4x12 cabinet to spread the high frequency load out over 4 cones instead of one. Piercing highs for a 1x12 is a fact of life. Allegedly, SRV (no thread is complete without an SRV reference, right) used duck/duct tape on the cones of his speakers even when using 4x12 cabs to combat the piercing highs.

When ordering speakers on the Weber speaker site, there is an option for speaker dope (light/moderate/heavy) the following is what the site says about Dope:

Doping is the shiny goop you see on the surround of a speaker. Besides extending the life of the surround, it also acts as a shock absorber to help keep the cone under control at higher volumes. The downside is that it also dampens cone vibrations and therefore reduces the potential character and texture of the speaker. If you are going to bend/sustain notes in the area above the 10th fret on the high E string and at high volumes with heavy distortion, then you need the doping to help prevent ghost notes and cone cry that could result from the extreme cone vibrations. Othewise, I would get the speaker undoped. Many players prefer the raw, undamped tone of the undoped speaker and they learn to modulate their finger pressure when noting in the area that causes cone cry.

How much speaker dope do you like?

 

[wixedmords]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

How much speaker dope do you like?

You know that is personal Todd. I have a problem yes, but I can still get to work in the morning.

I did not know you were going to bring up personal issues in the forum.

(J/K I couldn't help myself )

 

[Guitar Toad]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

You know that is personal Todd. I have a problem yes, but I can still get to work in the morning.

I did not know you were going to bring up personal issues in the forum.

(J/K I couldn't help myself )

I knew it was gonna happen.:laughing: :biglaugh:

 

[wixedmords]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

It is an interesting topic GT. You have made me look into the speakers I like and how they are made.

I would say I am more of a fan of light to medium doping. I like to hear a crisp note, but not so clear that my ears hurt. I find I can be bothered by certain frequencies, so no doping would likely be out for me. It seems that too much doping leads to a mushy speaker, a speaker that would blend the notes, if I read this correctly.
It also seems speakers need a little doping to rid themselves of cone cry and ghost notes, an issue Eminence had with a few models (Patriots and Redcoats), even though I never had the issue with any of mine.

This snippet comes from svvintageamps.com

Q: What does "doping” a speaker mean?

A: Doping refers to the application of a material, to the speaker's surround, which seals the surround and suppresses the surround resonance.

Doping reduces the character and texture of a speaker's tone and increases the break in time on most speakers. However, doping will eliminate or reduce cone cry (shrill sound when the speaker is pushed hard) and ghost notes. Some players also believe that doping will extend the life of a speaker.

Since the doping reduces the texture and complexity of the sound from the speaker, many guitar players prefer un-doped cones. Most speakers don't require doping for most applications and I myself prefer my speakers un-doped, as I prefer the natural sound of the speaker.

That said, there are valid applications for doping, such as when you have a specific problem to resolve (like excessive cone cry).

There is more than doping that goes into the makeup of a speaker, magnet size, magnet weight, voice coil diameter, sensitivity and others. But, doping does seem to play its part.

If you are still looking at the Eminence line, I have a few old links for you from a Guitar Player mag I used to have. It helped me a lot when I was trying to decide what Emi I wanted when they first came out.

http://www.guitarplayer.com/story.asp?sectioncode=6&storycode=222
http://www.guitarplayer.com/story.asp?sectioncode=6&storycode=4770&featurecode=2

 

[doveman]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

Allegedly, SRV (no thread is complete without an SRV reference, right) used duck/duct tape on the cones of his speakers even when using 4x12 cabs to combat the piercing highs.

The duct tape reference is in the screen in front of the speaker. It was a small piece in front of the speaker cone. The weber device that is placed in front of the cone does the same thing. see at http://www.webervst.com/blocker.html

The "spreading out the highs" thing by using 4 speakers doesn't make any sense to me though. But that's just my opinion. :biglaugh:

 

[Guitar Toad]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

Thanks for the excellent info, Paul. From the first link the Black Power reads like it would be a perfect choice.

You and Jeremy and Gearjoneser gave great sources. I'm sure I'll end up with a very good if not great selection. I wish I had three amps and three cabs to hear what they all sound like.

I guess I'm looking for the best bang for buck speaker for under a 100 bucks.

And Doveman, that a really interesting bit of info. So the duct tape was just to spread out the highs. Do you use the Weber Beam blockers?

 

[doveman]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

And Doveman, that a really interesting bit of info. So the duct tape was just to spread out the highs. Do you use the Weber Beam blockers?

Yes, the tape was attached to the inside of the baffle screen and just blocks the highs a bit. So the blocker does the same thing.

No, I have not used it personally but I am considering it. You can get complaints from those directly in front of a guitar speaker that it's too harsh ... the center cone probably. I've also experienced that in recording ... so I never put the mic in the center of the speaker for the same reason.

 

[Guitar Toad]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

Doveman, that's a beautiful strat in your avatar. Is that the G&L I see listed in your sig? It looks kinda like a Sienna Burst I've been Jonesing for.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

How much speaker dope do you like?

In my opinion, some of Ted Weber's 12" speakers have a tendency towards cone cry and so Ted uses more dope than I prefer to tame that tendency...and that dulls the tone a little.

For that reason, I prefer Celestions over Webers when it comes to 12's.

I like Weber's 10" speakers, but I'm not as fond of his 12" speakers. The 12's tend to either sound slightly dull to me from to much dope or have to much cone cry from not enough. His 10's (and most 10's in general) don't suffer from that problem.

I have to add that I have not tried any Weber 12's for several years...Ted used to send me 12's to test drive. Kinda like how Seymour and Evan sent me sets of Classic Stack Plus pickups to critique before releasing the final version.

Lew

 

[doveman]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

Doveman, that's a beautiful strat in your avatar. Is that the G&L I see listed in your sig? It looks kinda like a Sienna Burst I've been Jonesing for.

Thanks ...just got it a couple of weeks ago and love it. It's a G&L Legacy ... Swamp Ash Honeyburst finish. Here's my first clip Legacy. I was playing with a new TS9 pedal during the middle lead (I don't use pedals) and I'm not sure it did anything to help the tone.

Here's the pix:

 

[D-EJ915]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

the reason why rubber surrounds became so popular with the hifi industry isn't because they're pretty or last longer, but because it dampens gross high end from leaping off the cone.



another note is that the higher the frequency and larger the cone gets, the more directional it becomes

 

[krankguitarist]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

How much speaker dope do you like?

I like hemp cone speakers :smokin:

 

[Guitar Toad]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

Do any of you guys use an amp stand to point the amp up and keep the highs from blasting whoever might be directly in front of the speaker? A stand would work for a 1x[speaker] or a 2x[speaker] combo but probably isn't practical for 4x cabs. That's were the beam blocker or duct tape would be better.

 

[Guitar Toad]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

The following specs are from Celestion for the Vintage 30 Speaker.

Knowing up front that the most important statistic is how is sounds to YOU.

If you were looking at a couple of speakers that were brand new or from a new company you've never heard before. What on-papers specifications would you look at to determine whether or not said speaker is for you?

General specifications
Nominal diameter 12", 305mm
Power Rating 60W
Nominal impedance 8Ω and 16Ω
Sensitivity 100dB
Chassis type Pressed steel
Voice coil diameter 1.75", 44.5mm
Voice coil material Round copper
Magnet type Ceramic
Magnet weight 50oz, 1.42kg
Frequency range 70-5000Hz
Resonance frequency, Fs 75Hz
DC resistance, Re 7.3Ω & 12.9Ω

Mounting Information
Diameter 12.2", 309mm
Overall depth 5.3", 135mm
Magnet structure diameter 6.1", 156mm
Cut-out diameter 11.1", 283mm
Mounting slot dimensions 0.31", 7.9mm Ø
Number of mounting slots 4
Mounting slot PCD 11.7", 297mm
Unit weight 10.4lb, 4.7kg

How important is voice coil diameter and voice coil material?
How Important is the magnet type?
Does the sensitivity mean anything to you?

 

[Guitar Toad]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

Could you put a 30W speaker in a 40W amp, especially considering that you'd rarely play at full volume?

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

You know that is personal Todd. I have a problem yes, but I can still get to work in the morning.

I did not know you were going to bring up personal issues in the forum.

(J/K I couldn't help myself )

That's awesome!

The following specs are from Celestion for the Vintage 30 Speaker.

Knowing up front that the most important statistic is how is sounds to YOU.

If you were looking at a couple of speakers that were brand new or from a new company you've never heard before. What on-papers specifications would you look at to determine whether or not said speaker is for you?

To me it depends on the cabinet. I tend to like balanced sounds that are fairly warm.

On paper I'd look for
WEIGHT! EVs and Fanes are great but they're HEAVY!
Possibly a 55Hz cone,
Most likely ceramic magnet
Copper voice coil
Light doping
Dust cap size.

Also I want to say I disagree with the guy's assessment of 4x12s and 4x10s not normally having a log of treble. Look at the 300W Marshall cabs. G12T75s are naturally bright speakers, and a larger box and more speakers doesn't cover that up. Also my 4x12 with G1280s (not classic leads) can get pretty bright and those speakers have 55Hz cones. The thing is they also have a fiberglass voicecoil. Also the dustcap on them is pretty large to diffuse the highs, but if not EQed correctly they can be rough!

Todd also check out Weber's beam blockers if you are trying to mix the sound a bit better.

Luke

 

[jeremy]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

Could you put a 30W speaker in a 40W amp, especially considering that you'd rarely play at full volume?

yes you could, but on those rare occasions when you do turn it up, you might fry your speaker. a 40w tube amp will put out more than 40w when turned all the way up

 

[Guitar Toad]

Re: Miscellaneous speaker questions.

yes you could, but on those rare occasions when you do turn it up, you might fry your speaker. a 40w tube amp will put out more than 40w when turned all the way up

Conversely, you could put a 75W speaker in a 15W Blues Junior to provide more speaker head room to avoid speaker breaker up?

Is there a cabinet maker that incorporates the beam blockers besides Ted Weber?

What defines a good, warm cabinet? Pine, Oak, plywood? Depth?