Mismatched coil question.

pushedcrayon1

pushedcrayon1

New member
Hey guys, I had a few questions regarding pickups with mismatched coils.

For starters, the guitar I'm thinking about putting a new bridge pickup in is a Gibson les paul traditional pro iii, and it has coil splitting, and coil selecting already wired in.

It currently has a 57 classic with an a3 mag in it, and while I like the sound I get from the neck, I wish the bridge was more modern sounding, less paf like. I play mostly rock, and a bit on the heavier side. The guitar stays in the e standard, e flat, and drop d tunings, so I don't drop the tuning super low, but I was hoping for a pickup I could go from good rock sounds, and then split it to a single coil to get it to sound like just a hot single coil for leads or solos.

I was wondering if it was possible to have the custom shop wind a pickup that has mismatched coils. As in wind one coil to 8k, and the other to about 6k or 7.

The big question I have, is how do mismatched coils effect the overall humbucker? Would it be a bug sound difference if I compared it to a regular humbucker like the custom 5, or even the 57 classic I have in the bridge now?

I understand different pickups sound different, I'm asking if the difference is noticeable when the two coils aren't equally wound, or even somewhat close.

The last question I have, is would the single coils when split sound just like a single coil dropped into a les Paul? Or would it sound like a whole different animal?

Sorry if some of these are pretty lame questions, but I truly don't know a whole lot about pickups, and was looking for something new to drop in my les paul.

Thanks in advance!

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Re: Mismatched coil question.

A '57 Classic Plus is what you need to keep that tonal footprint you say you like on the neck p'up.

I'm not a fan of Gibson p'ups, if I was you I'd put an A4n/A8b-modded Vintage Blues set and I'd call it a day. This gives you the most modern of vintage vibe known to mankind, where you got all you'll ever need of cut, clarity and power on tap.

HTH,
 
Re: Mismatched coil question.

Would that set still work if I was hoping to split the pickups and get some good single coil ish tones?

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Re: Mismatched coil question.

Much depends on which coil is the stronger one. In my experience it is always best for both neck and bridge pickups to have the coil closer to the neck be the stronger one. This emphasizes the cream and grunt in a bridge pickup and the flutey qualities of a neck pickup. Doing it the other way makes the bridge sound thinner and more slicey/mosquito-like and the neck more like neck+middle on a Strat (but thicker of course).

A significant mismatch (which for me starts at 0.3k at least) will also add some single coil chime and air on the top (more sizzle when driven), which is to say it sounds like a P90 with more beef.

As for the effect of a mismatch on the coil split, it depends on your starting point. You give the example of a pickup with one 8k coil and the other 6-7k. If your starting point is a 12k or 14k pickup, the split to the stronger coil would be a bit of an improvement. If your starting point was a 16k even (8k+8k) pickup, it would make no difference.

The real solution to get a decent faux-single coil sound out of a humbucker is to get a pickup made such that when you throw the switch, you get all of one coil and part of the other one. Not only does it get rid of the typical wimpy split tone, having part of the other coil in there reduces the noise a little bit.
 
Re: Mismatched coil question.

Zhangliqun said:
Much depends on which coil is the stronger one. In my experience it is always best for both neck and bridge pickups to have the coil closer to the neck be the stronger one. This emphasizes the cream and grunt in a bridge pickup and the flutey qualities of a neck pickup. Doing it the other way makes the bridge sound thinner and more slicey/mosquito-like and the neck more like neck+middle on a Strat (but thicker of course).

A significant mismatch (which for me starts at 0.3k at least) will also add some single coil chime and air on the top (more sizzle when driven), which is to say it sounds like a P90 with more beef.

As for the effect of a mismatch on the coil split, it depends on your starting point. You give the example of a pickup with one 8k coil and the other 6-7k. If your starting point is a 12k or 14k pickup, the split to the stronger coil would be a bit of an improvement. If your starting point was a 16k even (8k+8k) pickup, it would make no difference.

The real solution to get a decent faux-single coil sound out of a humbucker is to get a pickup made such that when you throw the switch, you get all of one coil and part of the other one. Not only does it get rid of the typical wimpy split tone, having part of the other coil in there reduces the noise a little bit.
Click to expand...
That was some wonderful information, I appreciate it!

Now, to get that faux single coil sound, would I be better off using something like a spin-o-split? From what I've read, it almost sounds like you can start to mix the could together when you split them, but then again, I could be totally reading it wrong.

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Re: Mismatched coil question.

In the absence of of the design I mentioned -- which does exist -- a Spin-A-Split is great, and in one respect it's actually better. It's the easiest and most underrated mod for dramatic tone transformation there is. There are two reasons players don't use it more than they do:

1) You have to give up one of your pots for this mod. This is very impractical on guitars with just one each tone and volume knobs but even guys with 4-knob guitars often don't want to give one up.

2) The taper on most pots is inconsistent, with plateaus and cliffs and chances are your sweet spot will be in one of the cliff zones. This means being off by half a degree (of 360) on the turn causes you to miss it, which is obviously very impractical to do on the fly at a gig.

The best solution I can think of for both problems is to install a trim pot in the control cavity for for the Spin-A-Split. Trim pots are stiff on purpose (to prevent them from moving when you don't want them to) and typically turned with a flathead screwdriver. You just sit at home and tune it to that sweet spot as you test it through the amp, then wire it to a switch so you can pop it in and out, then close the cavity -- set it and forget it.

The potential downside here is that you may find several sweet spots along the pot's taper that you like so one setting wouldn't be enough. (This is the one respect where Spin-A-Split is better than the design I mentioned -- it's continuously variable.) In that case, the best solution is to find a pot with the smoothest/most consistent taper and just get good at adjusting it on the fly. As for what pot that would be, I don't know.

Hey, everything's a trade-off...
 
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Re: Mismatched coil question.

Zhangliqun said:
In the absence of of the design I mentioned -- which does exist -- a Spin-A-Split is great, and in one respect it's actually better. It's the easiest and most underrated mod for dramatic tone transformation there is. There are two reasons players don't use it more than they do:

1) You have to give up one of your pots for this mod. This is very impractical on guitars with just one each tone and volume knobs. Even guys with 4-knob guitars often don't want to give one up.

2) The taper on most pots is inconsistent, chances are in the zone where you find your sweet spot, the change in sound is very dramatic meaning being off by half a degree (of 360) on the turn causes you to miss it. This is very impractical to do on the fly at a gig.

The best solution I can think of for both problems is to install a trim pot in the control cavity for for the Spin-A-Split. Trim pots are stiff on purpose (to prevent them from moving when you don't want them to) and typical turned with a flathead screwdriver and then wire it to a switch so you can pop it in and out. You just sit at home and tune it to that sweet spot as you test it through the amp, then close the cavity -- set it and forget it.

The potential downside here is that you may find several sweet spots along the pot's taper that you like so one setting wouldn't be enough. (This is the one respect where Spin-A-Split is better than the design I mentioned -- it's continuously variable.) In that case, the best solution is to find a pot with the smoothest/most consistent taper and just get good at adjusting it on the fly. As for what pot that would be, I don't know.

Hey, everything's a trade-off...
Click to expand...
I wouldn't mind losing one of the pots on my guitar, two volume two tone, one can go.

But the idea of a switch is a bit scary, don't really want to add any holes, but what about the possibility of changing the typical three way toggle, to some other switch that could have more ports to switch to, and one could be the specific value you mentioned if I go with adding a taper pot? Would be it possible to use a 5 way, or some sort of super switch to be able to just flip on that position if I have it previously set?

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Re: Mismatched coil question.

Zhangliqun said:
A significant mismatch (which for me starts at 0.3k at least) will also add some single coil chime and air on the top (more sizzle when driven), which is to say it sounds like a P90 with more beef.
Click to expand...


+1. For the neck hybrids I make, the magic I'm looking for is at a .5K mismatch. I can use a warm magnet and still get a cutting high end.
 
Re: Mismatched coil question.

pushedcrayon1 said:
I wouldn't mind losing one of the pots on my guitar, two volume two tone, one can go.

But the idea of a switch is a bit scary, don't really want to add any holes,
Click to expand...

You don't have to. Just put in a push/pull pot.

push said:
but what about the possibility of changing the typical three way toggle, to some other switch that could have more ports to switch to, and one could be the specific value you mentioned if I go with adding a taper pot?
Click to expand...

Don't know what you mean by taper pot -- all pots are tapered or they won't work. It's the nature of the taper varies. Some are logarithmic taper (actual resistance value increase/decrease is smooth) and some are audio taper (designed to SOUND as if the taper is smooth) and as with all things, the quality and consistency of each varies with manufacturer.

push said:
Would be it possible to use a 5 way, or some sort of super switch to be able to just flip on that position if I have it previously set?
Click to expand...

I don't know, maybe. Push/pull pot seems easier to me.
 
Re: Mismatched coil question.

blueman335 said:
+1. For the neck hybrids I make, the magic I'm looking for is at a .5K mismatch. I can use a warm magnet and still get a cutting high end.
Click to expand...

0.5k mismatch with 43 AWG coils is about 20-25% fewer turns difference than with 42 AWG, so be sure to include that in your calculations.
 
Re: Mismatched coil question.

Zhangliqun said:
You don't have to. Just put in a push/pull pot.



Don't know what you mean by taper pot -- all pots are tapered or they won't work. It's the nature of the taper varies. Some are logarithmic taper (actual resistance value increase/decrease is smooth) and some are audio taper (designed to SOUND as if the taper is smooth) and as with all things, the quality and consistency of each varies with manufacturer.



I don't know, maybe. Push/pull pot seems easier to me.
Click to expand...
All of the pots currently in the guitar are push push, the volume knobs split the pickups, the tone on the neck is a boost circuit, and the tone on the bridge is the coil selector when split

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Re: Mismatched coil question.

It affects hum cancelling slightly, but I really like the sound of mismatched coils. The 59/Custom Hybrid is still one of my favorite pickups, and there are a host of hybrids I still want to check out. The Custom Shop could build it for you, though.
 
Re: Mismatched coil question.

Id really like the custom/59 hybrid, but I want some more modern tone to it that's basically what I'm after, but I emailed the custom shop, and I'm waiting on a response (it's a busy time of year, I get that).
But hopefully we can get something worked out!

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Re: Mismatched coil question.

Replace the 3-way with a Freeway from www.stewmac.com

You would also replace one pot with a concentric pot (two pots stacked onto each other, with their own shaft and knob), though finding one to pass through a Les Paul top might be tricky. All I've found are too short and only work on pickguards.

Alternatively, you could replace both Tones, unless you really like the gain booster. If you only set it to one point in the range (assuming the knob affects that), then you could leave it connected as Boost Only, set to where you keep it, replace the pot in the hole with a push-pull to turn it on and off, but the pot itself wired for Spin-A-Split. That way you keep the coil-selection on the other Tone, assuming you prefer that. Otherwise, you can make it another Spinner for the neck pickup.
 
Re: Mismatched coil question.

DrNewcenstein said:
Replace the 3-way with a Freeway from www.stewmac.com

You would also replace one pot with a concentric pot (two pots stacked onto each other, with their own shaft and knob), though finding one to pass through a Les Paul top might be tricky. All I've found are too short and only work on pickguards.

Alternatively, you could replace both Tones, unless you really like the gain booster. If you only set it to one point in the range (assuming the knob affects that), then you could leave it connected as Boost Only, set to where you keep it, replace the pot in the hole with a push-pull to turn it on and off, but the pot itself wired for Spin-A-Split. That way you keep the coil-selection on the other Tone, assuming you prefer that. Otherwise, you can make it another Spinner for the neck pickup.
Click to expand...
Those are some really cool ideas! I'll definitely look into them! Thank you.

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Re: Mismatched coil question.

Mincer said:
It affects hum cancelling slightly, but I really like the sound of mismatched coils. The 59/Custom Hybrid is still one of my favorite pickups, and there are a host of hybrids I still want to check out. The Custom Shop could build it for you, though.
Click to expand...
Do you think the custom shop could wind me the 59/c hybrid with just some more meat to it, some more output, and maybe some more clarity? Essentially the hybrid, with more of the custom Influence?

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Re: Mismatched coil question.

pushedcrayon1 said:
Do you think the custom shop could wind me the 59/c hybrid with just some more meat to it, some more output, and maybe some more clarity? Essentially the hybrid, with more of the custom Influence?
Click to expand...

For that just add a ceramic magnet, or for a real thickness add a double thick ceramic mag to the 59/custom, they could even do it as a shop floor custom for you.
 
Re: Mismatched coil question.

allstarrme said:
For that just add a ceramic magnet, or for a real thickness add a double thick ceramic mag to the 59/custom, they could even do it as a shop floor custom for you.
Click to expand...
That could just be it!

Could you explain the difference in the custom shop, and just a custom shop floor model? What are the price differences? Or differences in what they can do?

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Re: Mismatched coil question.

allstarrme said:
For that just add a ceramic magnet, or for a real thickness add a double thick ceramic mag to the 59/custom, they could even do it as a shop floor custom for you.
Click to expand...

Holy crap Batman! Or an A8. Or an A8 with ceramic spacers. Or...
 
Re: Mismatched coil question.

Usually a Floor Shop Custom isn't an additional charge, since they don't have to physically make anything different- they just use something from a different parts bin than normal. Wait and see what the Custom Shop comes back with. My guess is a ceramic magnet might do it- adding more winds isn't going to make anything more clear sounding.
 
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