MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

[AniML]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

Is this a build or an assembly?



It is not a solid body and I carved the neck and nut, attached the fretboard and slotted and fretted it. Even put in fret markers..

NOTE: it is electric, but no pup in it right now



Does that make me a luthier?

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

Aren't engine blocks usually cast?
Just saying.

Guitar bodies are usually CNC'd . . . But we're talking about the kind of froofy artisanal work worthy of the moniker 'build' here.

 

[ErikH]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

I’ll freely admit to using the term “build” for the guitars I’ve assembled. I quite simply lack the skills (and tools) for transforming a piece of wood into a body or neck, so I buy the parts and put them together. I’ve yet to buy a kit, preferring to source most of the parts separately. It’s just more fun, interesting, and personal that way.

My personal definition of the term “build” is in line with this definition:

Using it, the guy who buys a kit is building a guitar every bit as much as the guy who starts with a piece of wood and turns it into an instrument. The difference lies in skill levels and respect from others. There are folks who think the guitars I’ve built are really cool, but I don’t think anyone would disagree with me when I say that someone who started with the raw materials possesses much greater skills than me and deserves more kudos.

Oh yeah... pickup/hardware swaps should be mods instead of builds. Stickers, while possibly interesting or fun, really don’t even count as mods!

I agree with this having done the same thing. The furthest I've dove in to the luthier pool was getting the SG Junior kit (raw body and neck only). I had to glue the neck, put sanding sealer on the entire thing, sand it back, repeat, wipe it clean, apply the finish, drill the holes for hardware (other than the bridge and pots), make the nut, wire it all up and make it in to a complete instrument. My first Frankenstrat was done the same way though the body was raw from one place and the neck from another. The only difference is it's bolt-on vs. set-neck and I didn't finish it like the SG Junior. I still had to drill the holes for the bridge, tuners, strap buttons, wire it up etc.. The SG Junior was a challenge because I never tried working with a set-neck before. They made the body and neck better than I ever could so I was more than happy to start from that point and go forward.

Look at it like this, we see all these warehouses and such going up everywhere. They have the walls pre-fabricated which are brought in on a truck to be put up and, ohhhh, put together to make the 4 walls and sometimes even interior firewalls before doing all the interior, in which many of the materials are already made and brought on-site for the job. Are these called 'assemblings' or 'buildings'?

 

[ICTGoober]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

He isn't. Unless/until he can build a great acoustic or carved top hollowbody guitar by hand he is a guitar builder. A very successful guitar builder, but a guitar builder.
But I wouldn't tell him that because it's just a semantic thing on my part and he can call himself an elephant if he likes and I would not argue with him.

(I am not a PRS fan or historian - he didn't start off doing hand-carved jazz boxes, did he? If he did, them he IS a luthier who now works as a guitar designer and manufacturer.)

Paul Reed Smith started out as a guitar repairman, who also built electric guitars. As I remember, his first complete build was sold to Howard Leese of Heart. He didn't start his empire until much later. So, yes - he IS a luthier, and you are being obtuse.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

Some formal definitions...

Build: to form by ordering and uniting materials by gradual means into a composite whole;Construct

Fabricate: to invent, create or manufacture

Luthier: one who makes stringed musical instruments (such as violins or guitars)

Woodworking: the act, process, or occupation of working wood into a useful or desired form

 

[aimingforangels]

MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

I don’t think you’re too off-base.

You’re making the “hobbyist/enthusiast vs luthier” argument and it’s 100% warranted. I find this frustrating as well.

I would say putting together a kit is a great way to end up with a guitar that is unique and feels like “yours” but a luthier works with raw materials and can replicate their work consistently from project to project.

Swapping pickups or changing tuners is child’s play to a luthier.
You don’t ask an enthusiast or hobbyist to do a luthier’s work. There’s a reason all those build kits come with all the same pieces (pre-assembled, fully fretted necks, pre-routed bodies, generic pickups with the simplest of wiring schematics (if they haven’t ditched the wiring all together for an unbelievably low quality quick connect setup)) and the reason isn’t because it’s what’s most cost effective to sell.
Quality raw materials can usually be had for the equivalent of what a decent kit would cost. The thing is that those kits are marketed for the average consumer who wouldn’t know where to begin cutting a channel in quarter-saw maple for a trussrod.

A kit can be great and you may end up with an instrument that sounds decent and plays beautifully. There’s nothing wrong with that. When I was being taught we used kits all the time to practice craftsmanship and to use as examples on what to do and not to do.
On the other hand, after you have some experience you learn that luthier schools acquire these kits for students simply because they’re considered disposable.

At the end of the day, you know what you’re capable of and the categories here are self-explanatory whether the hobbyist/enthusiast crowd wants to admit it to themselves or not. Swapping pre-existing parts for new ones is an UPGRADE.
A MOD would be something like replacing your standard Strat neck with a Warmoth Baritone Conversion neck or Re-routing a body to accommodate a different bridge system.
Swapping passive pickups for active pickups is somewhere in between.
Reshaping the back of a neck to a more comfortable (subjective) profile, replacing fret markers/side dots, or scalloping frets, while intensive, are CUSTOMIZATIONS.
Taking raw materials and working those materials to be used in the crafting of an instrument is BUILDING. The basis of what a luthier does. (This doesn’t even factor in the whole aspect of actually designing a guitar which is a whole separate thing that a luthier should have mastered).
Ordering a kit and putting it together is ASSEMBLING. It’s nothing new. It’s not something from nothing.
Is there a market for that? Absolutely.
Just like there is a market for HandCrafted Solid Oak furniture. But buying a kit is the equivalent of buying a guitar from IKEA. Some ASSEMBLY required.

/end rant


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AlexR]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

I think this has come from the use of the phrase 'scratch build', where the person in question simply didn't have the tools to accomplish such a task.

For me, build can span a few areas, but scratch build covers only where you start with raw wood in some form, and craft it into a guitar. Even big manufacturers don't do every step, so I'm comfortably able to accept that small/individual builders use readily available hardware to complete their creations still under the umbrella of 'scratch build'

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

I don’t think you’re too off-base.

You’re making the “hobbyist/enthusiast vs luthier” argument and it’s 100% warranted. I find this frustrating as well.

I would say putting together a kit is a great way to end up with a guitar that is unique and feels like “yours” but a luthier works with raw materials and can replicate their work consistently from project to project.

Swapping pickups or changing tuners is child’s play to a luthier.
You don’t ask an enthusiast or hobbyist to do a luthier’s work. There’s a reason all those build kits come with all the same pieces (pre-assembled, fully fretted necks, pre-routed bodies, generic pickups with the simplest of wiring schematics (if they haven’t ditched the wiring all together for an unbelievably low quality quick connect setup)) and the reason isn’t because it’s what’s most cost effective to sell.
Quality raw materials can usually be had for the equivalent of what a decent kit would cost. The thing is that those kits are marketed for the average consumer who wouldn’t know where to begin cutting a channel in quarter-saw maple for a trussrod.

A kit can be great and you may end up with an instrument that sounds decent and plays beautifully. There’s nothing wrong with that. When I was being taught we used kits all the time to practice craftsmanship and to use as examples on what to do and not to do.
On the other hand, after you have some experience you learn that luthier schools acquire these kits for students simply because they’re considered disposable.

At the end of the day, you know what you’re capable of and the categories here are self-explanatory whether the hobbyist/enthusiast crowd wants to admit it to themselves or not. Swapping pre-existing parts for new ones is an UPGRADE.
A MOD would be something like replacing your standard Strat neck with a Warmoth Baritone Conversion neck or Re-routing a body to accommodate a different bridge system.
Swapping passive pickups for active pickups is somewhere in between.
Reshaping the back of a neck to a more comfortable (subjective) profile, replacing fret markers/side dots, or scalloping frets, while intensive, are CUSTOMIZATIONS.
Taking raw materials and working those materials to be used in the crafting of an instrument is BUILDING. The basis of what a luthier does. (This doesn’t even factor in the whole aspect of actually designing a guitar which is a whole separate thing that a luthier should have mastered).
Ordering a kit and putting it together is ASSEMBLING. It’s nothing new. It’s not something from nothing.
Is there a market for that? Absolutely.
Just like there is a market for HandCrafted Solid Oak furniture. But buying a kit is the equivalent of buying a guitar from IKEA. Some ASSEMBLY required.

/end rant


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You've made some very good points to ponder. I think I generally agree with all of them. Good addition to this thread. Thanks.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

Yeah, I was on the "build my own perfect guitar" kick for several years, but I never ended up with a guitar as good as a modified factory-built guitar. I don't even own any of the ones I spent so much time building any more.

 

[Xeromus]

Re: MOD vs BUILD. OR AM I JUST A BIT OCD?

I'm in the processing of building a telecaster with a buddy, yes from a slab of wood. It will be CNC and finished by ourselves, assembled, etc. The only thing I'm not making is the neck, that will likely be warmoth or similar. That is above my skill level.

I'm also in the process of "assembling" a Fender/Warmoth bastard which should be cool. Surf green, with a roasted maple neck. I don't consider this building.