More PRS questions...

[Lewguitar]

I've been in need of inspiration and often a new guitar (a used guitar that's new to me) helps. It's been a long time since I've been able to buy anything. But I've been selling a few things on Ebay and have put a few bucks together.

Been jonesing for a nice PRS for a while.

Had a nice USA CE 24 but couldn't get comfortable with the sound of the neck humbucker. In a 24 fret PRS the neck humbucker is mounted closer to the bridge humbucker and the polepieces are not lined up under the second octave of the strings as they are on most guitars. After a couple of pickup swaps that didn't help, I eventually sold the guitar but always meant to replace it someday.

1. My guitar had an alder body with maple top. Some have mahogany bodies. What impact does that have on the tone of the guitar? More resonant? Less resonant? More bass, mids or treble? Less bass, mids or treble? Heavier? I've read some comments that alder makes a PRS sound more like a Fender, but no comments that mahogany makes a PRS sound more like a Gibson.

2. Some PRS junkies are really into certain years. Which years are regarded as being best and why? Mine was from the early 90's.

3. On Strats, I always prefer a vibrato. I think it sounds better than a string through. More like a Strat I guess. Eric Clapton feels the same way although we both block the vibrato on our guitars. Whether you actually use the vibrato or not, do you prefer the tone with a bridge/tailpiece or with a vibrato?

I don't have much to spend so I've been looking at USA made CE 22 PRS guitars, BTW. I've seen them go for under a grand lately, although $1050 or so for a nice one seems to be the norm.

You all know how much I love Duncans, but I have a set of double Cream Tom Holmes pafs that Tom wound for me a good 10 years ago and said were just like Billy Gibbons'. I had them in a Les Paul for a while but wasn't playing the Paul so I removed them, put the Gibson humbuckers back in and sold it a few years ago.

I want to use the Tom Holmes pickups in whatever PRS I end up with. They do have short legs and should go in without a hitch.

Thanks!

 

[JeffB]

Re: More PRS questions...

The diff between alder and mahogany an dthe neck joint is what you would think it is. Alder CE models have a bit more pop/spank, and a bit more clarity.

That said, the Mahogany in a PRS is not enough to really take it into Gibson territory. Its still uniquely PRS toned. Just a bit warmer and smoother.

I love the trem system on PRS guitars and I am not a trem user on any other guitar, including my strats. They sound different than the stop tail, of course. If you dont plan on using it, its stable enough to just let it be decked.

You may want to look into a custom 22 as well. Worst problem with most CE/CU22 models is that godawful rotary. Never could get used to that thing.

 

[AudioWonderland]

Re: More PRS questions...

Hard to say. If memory server you are mostly a fender / 335 player and as you stated didn't bond with the PRS you had. AS much as I understand GAS and love PRS I am wondering if a PRS is really the right choice for you.

That said, I like the 24 fret models with a 5way rotary. The neck pickup alone is a little meh but the 3 combinations of split coils are really nice for Fendery clean tones with my amps and the bridge pickup really gets it done for dirty tones. The other combo I like is the 22 fret models with a Gibson style 3 way toggle with the push pull toggle split. The neck pickup in this setup is very nice. The split coil option is decent enough and the bridge pickup is still money with the dirt tones. With this setup I have been known to repurpose the push/pull to switch the neck pickup coils between series and parallel to extend its usefulness even more.

PRS trems are as good as they get IMO. I prefer mine to float and usually prefer the feel with 3 springs instead of the stock 4 with a 10-46 set

Pickup swaps are no big deal as long as they have the short feet and you know the color codes and how they compare to the PRS pickups. If you are wanting to keep all position hum cancelling you will have to flip the magnet in on of them. I usually prefer to flip the mag in the neck pickup as I am far less inclined to want to experiment with that pickup once its dialed in.

My only other advice is to evaluate it on its own terms. If you try to evaluate it in terms of Fender or Gibson it will always be a disappointment because its not either of those things. Its a PRS. If it doesn't speak to you on those terms then its just not your thing.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: More PRS questions...

You may want to look into a custom 22 as well. Worst problem with most CE/CU22 models is that godawful rotary. Never could get used to that thing.

I agree. I'll be replacing it with a Les Paul style switch. My Tom Holmes pickups are not 4 conductor anyway, and I'm not interested in splitting the humbuckers. Besides, I love the sound of neck and bridge humbuckers combined. I use that setting a lot on my ES-335. I may also remove the bright cap across the volume pot if there is one...we'll see.

 

[uOpt]

Re: More PRS questions...

Had a nice USA CE 24 but couldn't get comfortable with the sound of the neck humbucker. In a 24 fret PRS the neck humbucker is mounted closer to the bridge humbucker and the polepieces are not lined up under the second octave of the strings as they are on most guitars. After a couple of pickup swaps that didn't help, I eventually sold the guitar but always meant to replace it someday.

24 frets are a problem if your ears and expectations have a decade or more of "normal" neck pickup position conditioning.

1. My guitar had an alder body with maple top. Some have mahogany bodies. What impact does that have on the tone of the guitar? More resonant? Less resonant? More bass, mids or treble? Less bass, mids or treble? Heavier? I've read some comments that alder makes a PRS sound more like a Fender, but no comments that mahogany makes a PRS sound more like a Gibson.

Well, PRS puts on a carved top, not a veneer. There isn't nearly as much mahogany mass as in a LP or as much alder mass as in a plain Strat.

2. Some PRS junkies are really into certain years. Which years are regarded as being best and why? Mine was from the early 90's.

Gotta be honest, they seem to be very consistent to me.

I do object to how they did some finishes. Overly strong bursts or too dark blubursts (flame maple invisible ) can happen.

3. On Strats, I always prefer a vibrato. I think it sounds better than a string through. More like a Strat I guess. Eric Clapton feels the same way although we both block the vibrato on our guitars. Whether you actually use the vibrato or not, do you prefer the tone with a bridge/tailpiece or with a vibrato?

Absolutely, yes.

I don't have much to spend so I've been looking at USA made CE 22 PRS guitars, BTW. I've seen them go for under a grand lately, although $1050 or so for a nice one seems to be the norm.

One problem is that many 1990s PRS guitars went through extensive periods were nu-metal, alcohol and teenagers were mixed. They can be quite beaten up.

You all know how much I love Duncans, but I have a set of double Cream Tom Holmes pafs that Tom wound for me a good 10 years ago and said were just like Billy Gibbons'. I had them in a Les Paul for a while but wasn't playing the Paul so I removed them, put the Gibson humbuckers back in and sold it a few years ago.

I want to use the Tom Holmes pickups in whatever PRS I end up with. They do have short legs and should go in without a hitch.

Thanks!

Most PRS pickups suck anyway

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: More PRS questions...

Again, I am not a PRS owner but I have played quite a lot of them. I want to like them so bad because they look great and the out of the box PRS fit and finish is amazing but the guitars are just not my cup o tea!

So...my 2 cents!

1. My guitar had an alder body with maple top. Some have mahogany bodies. What impact does that have on the tone of the guitar? More resonant? Less resonant? More bass, mids or treble? Less bass, mids or treble? Heavier? I've read some comments that alder makes a PRS sound more like a Fender, but no comments that mahogany makes a PRS sound more like a Gibson.

The mahogany ones are slightly more Gibson like but they (PRS guitars) are still a funny middle ground of Gibson and Fender no matter what.

2. Some PRS junkies are really into certain years. Which years are regarded as being best and why? Mine was from the early 90's.

Lots of PRS guys was pre CNC machine PRS guitars because they are "handmade"...another thing folks go nuts over is the oldest ones have braz RW fingerboards. Means nothing to me as there is little to no difference in quality.

3. On Strats, I always prefer a vibrato. I think it sounds better than a string through. More like a Strat I guess. Eric Clapton feels the same way although we both block the vibrato on our guitars. Whether you actually use the vibrato or not, do you prefer the tone with a bridge/tailpiece or with a vibrato?

I prefer everything hardtail...that big hole in the back just takes away so much tone and sustain...I deal with it on Strats because it's the norm ya know?

I don't have much to spend so I've been looking at USA made CE 22 PRS guitars, BTW. I've seen them go for under a grand lately, although $1050 or so for a nice one seems to be the norm.

That's about right...the market on everything is soft and PRS guitars take a bigger hit than most other big names...unless you want a double 10 top with birds and an Artist package...

You all know how much I love Duncans, but I have a set of double Cream Tom Holmes pafs that Tom wound for me a good 10 years ago and said were just like Billy Gibbons'. I had them in a Les Paul for a while but wasn't playing the Paul so I removed them, put the Gibson humbuckers back in and sold it a few years ago.

I want to use the Tom Holmes pickups in whatever PRS I end up with. They do have short legs and should go in without a hitch.

Most non PRS players that own a PRS swap the pickups and it's easy for me to understand why...I think PRS pickups are rather plain sounding. However, just know going in that it'll never sound as fat and nasty as a Les Paul, it'll never be as airy and open as a 335 and it'll never have the clarity of any Fender no matter what pickups you put in it.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Re: More PRS questions...

My 5¢:

I played one a while back that seems to have been more or less like your former one, Lew – a 1989 CE24, burst with a flame top. So, it had the BRW and original one-piece Mil Com trem. The stock pups were removed in lieu of PAF types by Mick Brierley, who's a respected winder down here - many luthiers (including our own Pete C.) use his pups.

It was the shop owner's, so it was nicely set up, well played but in good shape. I only played it clean but it was a lovely guitar, quite smooth sounding without being too emphatic in any particular timbre range. Being older and gigged, the neck was nicely worn in. I could see what people meant when they said 'well, it's not like a Gibson or a Fender'. Personally, I think it's a b.s. complaint but whatever , guitarists aren't the most practical bunch - go and buy a F or G if it bothers you so much. For my part, I liked this quality, it combines aspects of F and G into something different, though the CE is a bit more Fendery with its alder body and maple neck.

I don't think the trem took away anything from the tone - the originals (and the NOS reissue) are cast from red bronze/red brass, milled brass saddles, and stainless steel pivot screws and arm. I didn't use it on this particular guitar but did so on another and it's a wonderful bridge - probably a bit stiffer than a Strat trem but it's all down to setup, I guess. To me it addresses some of the issues of a vintage strat trem - notched screws for knife edge, solid saddles, and a pop-in arm with a tension screw.

The only thing I didn't like was the rotary switch, I'd have preferred a 5 way blade (like they're doing now). It's the only PRS I've played so I don't know how it compares to others (especially newer ones) but I liked it very much.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: More PRS questions...

To me, the definitive PRS guitars are what I consider their second stage....the years where Ted McCarty moved them into a more Gibsonized direction. The first definitive stage was the mid eighties to around 94, when the first McCarty was introduced. That was all about the Custom 24 and 22, when they seemed more hand-made. But, I prefer the McCarty and Singlecut, in their original mahogany/maple/22 fret configuration. That's when they became something that a Gibson purist would accept.

Just get a McCarty with a mahogany body and neck, with maple top, stop tail, and Klusons.....or Singlecut with those specs. It seems to be the most pure example of a PRS in the minds of most Gibson/Fender/PRS fans. Someone solely into PRS's may have a more obscure favorite.

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: More PRS questions...

I am with GJ on this. Love them McCarty's... The neck could be a bit thicker though!

PRS pickups are kinda bland for my tastes. Nothing special, on a special guitar. I am using a Brobucker and PG in my McCarty.

B

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: More PRS questions...

I guess the second phase of PRS was the 90's where the McCarty and Singlecut were king. In the 2000's, they moved into more body shapes like the Starla and Mira, and in the 2010's, they're starting to focus on new proprietary pickups like the Near Field and these other ones that are pretty recent...
http://prsguitars.com/408standard/

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: More PRS questions...

The only thing I didn't like was the rotary switch, I'd have preferred a 5 way blade (like they're doing now). It's the only PRS I've played so I don't know how it compares to others (especially newer ones) but I liked it very much.

I'm with you! I didn't like the rotary switch on my CE24 either. I'm thinking if I found a PRS that had been played a lot (like TGWIF speaks of) it wouldn't be to much of a crime to replace the rotary switch with a Les Paul style 3-way switch. My Tom Holmes pickups use braided single conductor cable anyway - so no coil splitting.

Thanks to everyone who's commented so far. Very helpful in getting my head straight about this.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: More PRS questions...

Most non PRS players that own a PRS swap the pickups and it's easy for me to understand why...I think PRS pickups are rather plain sounding. However, just know going in that it'll never sound as fat and nasty as a Les Paul, it'll never be as airy and open as a 335 and it'll never have the clarity of any Fender no matter what pickups you put in it.

And this is the truth. Take my word for this coming from a guy who's own a half a dozen various PRS, some Fender and some Gibsons. I'm down to an ES-335 and a Tele, so you know where I stand with this. There are some really good McCarties out there though, my black one was pretty exceptional. Here's my .02: if you want a guitar that straddles the lines between Gibson and Fender, get a PRS, but make sure you play them before you buy because while they're all consistently well made, many don't sound all that great. If you can pick up an early to mid 90's PRS, definitely focus some attention to them because I've found the '96 McCarty I had breathed and resonated a lot better than the later 90's+ PRS. I haven't tried the newest models, so I don't know if PRS has changed their finishes, but the 2000 era ones were pretty thick and it caused the guitars to lose a lot of the woodiness players look for.

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: More PRS questions...

I think mid 90's thing maybe overrated.

I hated a mid 90's McCarty and C22 that I bought and sold in early 2000s... But, the 2004 McCarty that I currently have is very good...

While on average mid 90's PRS's maybe good (and I also think like that), this whole deal is about wood... Some are better than others.

B

 

[uOpt]

Re: More PRS questions...

The rotary switch isn't quite that terrible. It is a good way to get the splitting going, which many "real" PRS players want. They want flexibility and many different sounds. The rotary saves you from using push-pulls (which also might not fit depth-wise).

Of course us Duncanists can your triple-shot rings.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: More PRS questions...

The rotary switch isn't quite that terrible. It is a good way to get the splitting going, which many "real" PRS players want. They want flexibility and many different sounds. The rotary saves you from using push-pulls (which also might not fit depth-wise).

Of course us Duncanists can your triple-shot rings.

I've got Strats and Teles for single coil sounds Martin. Plus my Holmes HB's are single conductor and I don't want to alter them. So a LP style toggle is going in whatever I get. One reason I don't mind if the guitar is in less than mint condition - I'm going to alter it anyway. Heck: I put Bardens in my '54 Tele. Kept the originals of course. I'm still interested in working out something on that PRS of yours, BTW.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Re: More PRS questions...

If it were me, I'd change it up to suit my way. I'm sure our Mr. Wahwah doesn't cry about ditching the stock pups of his '68 Strat .

Besides, you're not drilling extra holes either by swapping the rotary for a toggle. The rotary is versatile, not disputing that (liked the tones it gave when I played that CE24), just that you can't tell at a glance where you're at if you're not used to it.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: More PRS questions...

Luckily, McCartys and Singlecuts come with a 3 way, as well as perfectly good electronics, so all you have to do is drop the humbuckers in there. I think those Holmes humbuckers will sound great in a PRS. I love the Seth Lovers in one of mine. It's probably what Ted McCarty would have put in the guitar, if the McCarty was a golden era Gibson model.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: More PRS questions...

Slightly off topic I guess...a little...

That 5 way rotary pickup selector is the WORST thing about a PRS...I hate that thing!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: More PRS questions...

I agree about the rotary selector.

Well...back to the top. I need some inspiration. I haven't played any music (except on the piano) for about three months.

Been needed at home and also need to keep a quiet home for a while - but it's getting depressing.

Christian knows the deal. It's not my health this time, it's my wife's.

Gearjoneser had some suggestions so I put an ad in Craigslist for a McCarty and said I had a little cash and some amps and stuff to trade too. We'll see how it goes.

Thanks for all the insights and discussion guys...and gals too if any of you are members of the other 50% of humanity.

 

[Chris of Arabia]

Re: More PRS questions...

FWIW, the best PRS I've played was a McCarty - better than my own for sure.