My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

[blueman335]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

Yeah, Green is one of the greatest blues guitarists ever.
And as blueman said, that guitar was practically given to Gary.
I should get me some early Fleetwood Mac or Bluesbreakers with Green.

You need some Fleetwood Mac. I have a 6 CD box set from their days with Blue Horizon, with alternative takes & control room talk; it includes the Chicago session with Otis Spann, Willie Dixon, and a few other bluesmen. Also very good are the live albums "Shrine '69" and the "Boston Tea Party" set (especially the 1st volume).

There's a double CD version of "Hard Road" (Green with Mayall) which has extra cuts on it. You need "Then Play On" for the official version of 'Coming Your Way.' Another must is the original release of 'Green Manalishi' (there's an unfinished version on some CD's, and a live version, neither of which are as good).

And one correction, Green is the greatest blues guitarist ever.

 

[Andrew Lamprecht]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there Blue. The live version I have of Green Manalishi is a good deal better than the original. He has a 4 or 5 minute improv that just makes that song unbelievable live.

I think from the main parts of the song, the original was a bit better but because of that improv, I always go to the live cd.

 

[pzaxtl]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

Pretty amazing tone, and certainly up there among my favorites. However, I have yet to hear a tone I like more than Clapton's on "All My Love" from the Beano album. It's all a matter of personal taste, and I happen to like the slightly chewier and more gainy tone of Clapton on that track, but Peter Green on "The Supernatural" is in the same family of tone, and just gorgeous. Mayall sure did surround himself with great guitar tone!

Thanks for putting this stuff out there, Lew.

- Keith

Ditto!

 

[raistlin]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

+1. No one has Peter's feel & emotion, but Danny Kirwan came close. What a pairing of guitarists that was.

Danny had a huge, powerful vibrato which I can never duplicate...

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

My favorite Peter Green playing is on the Hard Road album with John Mayall. That's the CD I'd recommend. But the Fleetwood Mac stuff is cool too. I saw Peter a few years ago at the Boulder Theatre when the Splinter Group opened for John Mayall. Peter played well but his singing was what impressed me most. They did Green Manalishi ("This is a song about the devil...") and his singing had that same spooky quality that I remembered from the old days. He played well too. Not as much fire but much better than I was afraid he might sound with all he'd been through in the last forty years!

 

[blueman335]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

Danny had a huge, powerful vibrato which I can never duplicate...

Danny's strong bending & vibrato impressed Peter too. The solo Danny did at the end of Coming Your Way really showcased it. The two of them did some great bending/vibrato on the various versions of Like it This Way, Rattlesnake Shake, Black Magic Woman, & Madge. I wish guitarists these days were still playing like that.

On YouTube there's a video of them playing Like it This Way on stage, & it shows Danny bending the G string, pushing up with his 3rd finger like a madman. I've found that it's easier for me to get those wild bends & vibrato by pulling down on the G string with my 2nd finger. More control & I can do it longer. However, with the B & high E strings I push the strings up, as you'll go right off the fretboard if you pull down on them.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

Sally Van Meter is a great Dobro player and I took a couple of lessons from her. She taught me something about vibrato that I'll never forget.

She pointed out that most mediocre guitarists begin their vibrato pretty much at the same time as they pick the note. Unless you're doing that for effect, as when BB King stings a note, the result is that your playing sounds nervous.

But listen to a great guitarist or violinist with a beautiful tone and you'll notice that they tend to strike a note and wait just a mili-second or two to begin to vibrate the note.

Sounds a lot more elegant.

I don't always do it that way - but I do pay attention to when I begin my vibrato now.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

Gary Moore owned the PG Les Paul because PG gave it to him. I remember a few years ago, PG went to gary Moore and askd for it back. GM said no. GM does a versino of Supernatural on the "Blues For Greeny" CD. The tone is there too. One thing I noticed is a whole lot of reverb.

I remember reading that GM sold it to pay for hospital bills or something.

Myth!

Peter Green sold the guitar to the young Gary Moore - albeit for a token sum of money - because by that time, he (Green) had pretty much renounced playing guitar and grown his nails to an enormous length.

In Gary Moore's hands, the guitar sounds different. Different articulation, different note choices, different touch. (Still all very good, mind you!) IMO, Gary Moore does not play like the pre-acid Peter Green. Then again, neither does the present day Peter.

If you read enough of the interviews given to the music press by Peter Green over recent decades, you will notice that he repeatedly contradicts himself. The stories mutate over time.

The only way to determine what negotiations might have gone on between the two former owners of that very special Gibson Les Paul is to ask both parties for their side of the story.

As for the reverb on early recordings of Green. Quite often, this will have been generated in the basement or a corridor of the studio complex. Loudspeaker at one end, microphone at the other. At other times, the reverb was created using a big ol' plate reverb box.

 

[Andrew Lamprecht]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

Danny had a huge, powerful vibrato which I can never duplicate...

Yeah, I love his vibrato. I can do it ok but I can't control it sometimes so it's hard to use in improvs.

 

[Andrew Lamprecht]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

My favorite Peter Green playing is on the Hard Road album with John Mayall. That's the CD I'd recommend. But the Fleetwood Mac stuff is cool too. I saw Peter a few years ago at the Boulder Theatre when the Splinter Group opened for John Mayall. Peter played well but his singing was what impressed me most. They did Green Manalishi ("This is a song about the devil...") and his singing had that same spooky quality that I remembered from the old days. He played well too. Not as much fire but much better than I was afraid he might sound with all he'd been through in the last forty years!

My favorite cd by Peter is the Hard Road album too. I don't know why, he just sounds great through the whole thing. His Fleetwood Mac stuff is really good too but that Hard Road is something special.

 

[blueman335]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

Yeah, I love his vibrato. I can do it ok but I can't control it sometimes so it's hard to use in improvs.

Those bends & vibrato should be a key part of a good solo. I use them all the time. My favorite sound from a guitar is a wild Peter Green deep, fast vibrato bend that hits you in the gut. Nothing's cooler than that.

 

[Frankly]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

Frank Lee really enjoys the song "Greeny" that is on the two-disc version of the album Green did with Mayall.

Frank Lee would like to say that in His humble opinion Green's best playing was on Otis Spann's "The Biggest Thing Since Colossus" album, although He has a version of "Got a Good Mind..." from a live album that is profoundly incredible. He thinks that the Spann album is out of print, which is a shame. If anyone wants it, Frank Freakin' Lee would be happy to burn them a copy and mail it to them. Frank F'ing Lee is just that kind of guy.

Thank you.

 

[Laughing Kookaburra]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

Sally Van Meter is a great Dobro player and I took a couple of lessons from her. She taught me something about vibrato that I'll never forget.

She pointed out that most mediocre guitarists begin their vibrato pretty much at the same time as they pick the note. Unless you're doing that for effect, as when BB King stings a note, the result is that your playing sounds nervous.

But listen to a great guitarist or violinist with a beautiful tone and you'll notice that they tend to strike a note and wait just a mili-second or two to begin to vibrate the note.

Sounds a lot more elegant.

I don't always do it that way - but I do pay attention to when I begin my vibrato now.

Great tip, thanks.

I'll be trying that, and I'm guessing that it will be easier said than done!

 

[yngwie308]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g219/davida54/Greeny/?start=0
I read from the recording engineer at the session, for the Supernatural
A JTM 45 half stack was placed in an underground car park at the studio and Peter has said he got the sustain by using feedback and positioning the guitar in relation to the speakers.
Gary Moore used something like an E-bow he said to get the sustain on his version on Blues For Greeny.
Peter never wanted the guitar back...ever, I wish I had a dollar for every time I read that.
Now Montrose is trying to get Gary's Stripe '59 #9-2227 which he legitimately bought in 1989.
Some of Peter's best playing can be found on Otis Spann's "Greatest Thing Since Collosus"..
yngwie308

 

[Thunder]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

I have read more than once that Peter used a JTM-45 head and a 4x12 cab when he was in the Blues Breakers.

That said I have never seen any actual pictures or anything.

What I do know is that Peter gets a pretty amazing tone on the while album but The Supernatural is standout for sure!

I know you're not a fan of his later, out of phase tones but I even dig some of those tones as well. Past that Peter's playing is out of this world.

The BBC did a 2 hour special called The Peter Green Story: Man of the World on Peter a while back thats mega cool...i've not ever been able to find it for sale anywhere but it is all on Youtube if you can stand to watch it in 10 minute chunks.

Here is a link: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=1E112D365FFF7DF4&search_query=peter+green+man+of+the+world

Hey tgwif. Great story and vids! Didn't know Peter had been through
all that. Seems to be in good spirits at this time. Hopefully he'll continue to
feel better.

 

[Thunder]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

Yeah - that brown Deluxe always reminded me of a Marshall. Glad you're loving it. And you're right about the studio reverb - it's beautiful. You know, BB King said that of all the 1960's era British blues guitarists, the only one who gave him chills was Peter Green.

But speaking of great humbucker tone, I've always loved Clapton's tone on the Fresh Cream album, particularly on Sleepy Time Time. Mike Bloomfield's tone on the Super Session album and the Electric Flag album are also killer, although neither is a great album.

Peter's playing has more feeling though - spooky. Less mannered and less self conscious than Clapton's playing.

+1 Yes! It seems like Peter really 'dug' into his soul.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

How did Peter do it? Do you think he's using the neck or bridge pickup? What amp did he record with when he was playing with John Mayall? My best guess would be a 50 watt Marshall, maybe with a 4 x 12 Marshall cab.

Obviously most of it comes from within - from being Peter Green - from his soul and touch.

I do think it's true that he took apart the neck pickup and reversed the magnet by mistake and then reversed the neck humbucker on his Les Paul so the pole pieces were closer to the bridge.

Plenty of guessing going on here.

In the early stages of his career, Peter Green frequently used a Selmer valve amplifier - probably, a Truvoice or a Treble 'N' Bass model. Aspen Pitman's Tube Amp Books have descriptions, photographs and other poop about these British amps.

Studio recordings may have been made using Green's own amplification or with rented equipment.

In the mid-Sixties, plenty of bluesy guitarists were discovering the pleasures of running a Gibson through a Marshall. (Beck, Bloomfield, Clapton, Harrison, Page, Keith Richards et al.) Green was simply falling into line with a general trend of the age.

Yes, for a time, Green was obsessed with Clapton's playing in John Mayall's Bluesbreakers. Green regularly attended London JMBB shows, copping Clapton's licks and even sitting in with the band before becoming a full-time member and then developing in his own direction.

The pickup alteration was a mistake by a repairer. Having no other disassembled Gibson humbuckers for comparison, he put the unit back together wrongly. I cannot remember whether he is supposed to have put the magnet back upside down or connected one of the coils up backwards or both.

Mounting the pickup with its screw polepieces nearer to the bridge was a crude attempt to reverse the error. This failed to cure the original problem but accidentally brought us one of the most distinctive sounds in guitar history.

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

Love his preacid incident playing. I think I have almost all of what's there is to get from Peter Green, and have been quite a devoted listener to his playing.

He and Duaney are the only two guitar players giving me constant goose humps with their playing (Loan me a dime is -among many- the one I would give as an example from Duaney's tunes, yeah its a Boz Scoggs tune, yet it is Duaney who made it phenomenal).

You guys mentioned most of the stuff already. I just wanna mention one of Greeney's tunes from Fleetwood Mac. A song called First Train Home, a slow blues tune, very emotional playing and solid tone.

As far as equipment goes, IMHO I'd say a JTM45 and a LP with a thick neck should be the trick. The rest is his fingers, his soul.

B :cool2:

 

[Gilly Page]

Re: My favorite humbucker tone? Peter Green - the Supernatural

Any ideas where to get the recording of " got a good mind to give up living" live at the warehouse in NEW ORLEANS 1970 ?