My new JB/Jazz not quite right

GaryM

New member
Hi all,
This is my first post on this forum. I’ve been viewing for a few weeks now for research on my current purchase of
a JB and Jazz pickups for my guitar.

To cut a long one short, I bought my last guitar because of the action, feel and acoustic qualities. It’s a Hamer XT SAQT.
It also looks fantastic imo. I’ve read lots of reviews on the guitar and a lot of people have commented on how good
it is but swapped out the ‘Duncan Designed’ pups for better quality ones so I also took this route.

Not really knowing what I would get from this, I was a bit in the dark and although the ‘Duncan Designed’ pups sounded
OK to me, the seed was already planted and I had it in my head that it could be better.

I soon discovered that the JB/Jazz combi was going to be the best option for me as it is for many so I ordered a set with
nickel covers from ebay for £159 new which seemed to be an average price. The ebay shop had lots and lots of good feedback
so I had no doubt they would be genuine.

The guitar configuration is simple. No coil taps or phasing. Just neck and bridge individual volumes, one overall tone knob and
a three way switch.

Now, the first thing I noticed when installing my new pups was that the green and black wires on the old ones were wired
the other way round to the diagram for the new ones. I followed the wiring diagram to play it safe but now I can’t help
thinking “would there be dramatic differences if I swapped the green and black wires or would it not make an change at
all.” Also the Duncan designed pups didn’t have a bare wire. So the green is paired with the Bare wire on top of the volume
pot, the black wire is on the lug of the pot and the red and white wires are soldered together and taped up.

Another thing I noticed is that when I turn down the volume for, say ,the bridge pup, if I then switch to the neck pup, the
volume for that is also down. Also if I turn the neck pup all the way down then switch to the bridge, the bridge is also
volumed down.

They are in and working but I’m a bit disappointed with the result. It’s probably my untrained ear but I haven’t really noticed
much difference. I play through an Orange Tiny Terror with two 2X12 Orange cabs. Don’t get me wrong, it still sounds good
but just not much difference to speak of between my new pups and the Cheaper Duncan designed.

Could it be that the Duncan designed pups are actually quite good
Is it my choice of guitar
Is it the amp
could it be the wiring
is it me.

I’ve done lots of soldering in the past and I’ve checked all my joints and all looks OK so I’m kind of ruling that out. I thought maybe
that the new pups were fake but they turned up in the correct boxes with the sticky protective cover still on the Nickel covers.
The bottoms have the words ‘Seymour Duncan’ with a little white sticker on one saying JB and the other saying Jazz. They would
have gone to a lot of trouble if they were fakes. There is also the guys feedback which was flawless. They also own an actual
shop called “Cottam Guitars” so I’m sure they’re genuine.

I’m leaning towards my wiring. The fact that one volume knob turns both pickups down can’t be right.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

GaryM
 
Re: My new JB/Jazz not quite right

There are two ways to wire that type of guitar (LP style controls) - one is as yours is, and the other is independant volumes (turning one down doesn't affect the other).

As for the "major difference", you're not likely to hear one. It's there, but it's generally not a ton-of-bricks difference. That's not to say the Duncans are crap or the Designed are great, it's just that SOME Designeds are better than others. Probably due to a sliding QA scale where some are utter crap and some are better than they should be.
 
Re: My new JB/Jazz not quite right

I had one of those guitars for a short time. The Duncan Designed pickups rocked but they were not articulate and had little quality to offer in clean mode.
If you have read the HC reviews, you may notice most people say that the pickup selector switch is garbage and should be changed. That is accurate information, I had to change mine immediately. It is quite likely that the pots are pretty cra*py too. Buy good components, it's not worth installing good pickups and then throwing a good chunk of the precious signal away because of feeble switches and pots.
 
Re: My new JB/Jazz not quite right

Cheers for the link mark. That is the way it is currently wired. For the ones I took out though, swap the green and the black and lose the bare.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm still getting a fantastic sound and the tones are great through the Tiny Terror. It's just a bit of an anti climax. I'm getting the impression my expectations were a little too high.

With regards to pots and switches, not to knowlegable about this area although I've heard good things about 500's. Would this make a difference or am I totaly barking up the wrong tree.

I've even thought about adding coil taps for a bit of variation.

The volume thing isn't a fault then DrNewcenstein?

Sometimes though, I think I should just leave things alone.

Cheers

GaryM
 
Re: My new JB/Jazz not quite right

If its wired the way shown in the previously linked document then im pretty sure you should have independent volume controls. Any chance of taking a close up pic of your wiring and posting it on here? That might help a lot.
 
Re: My new JB/Jazz not quite right

Are you comfortable with how dialed in you are with pickup height? A little bit can change the sound significantly. Are the pickup covers parellel to string angle? A little bit off here can make a difference in clarity.
 
Re: My new JB/Jazz not quite right

If you wire things up as shown in the Duncan diagram, you definitely DO NOT have truely independent volume control. I don't know why SD uses this approach in their diagrams. To get independent volume control, you need to attach the black wire from the pickup to the wiper (center) tab of the pot. Then one of the outer pot tabs goes to ground and the other to the 3-way switch. I can't remember which is which right now, but you can probably search this forum for "independent volume" to dig up the diagram. That's what I did the last time I rewired my LP.
 
Re: My new JB/Jazz not quite right

I wouldn't be surprised if the DD's that were stock in that guitar were the takes on the JB/Jazz set already. If so, you'd probably notice little difference since the tonal qualities would be pretty similar. I bet if you went off the beaten path a little bit and put in a different set, you'd notice the sounce difference right away. I have a guitar that's very similar to yours and put in a set of Invaders because I wanted an over the top sound from it. Mission accomplished.

As long as you're wired correctly, you have some cheap options at this point - try swapping magnets, changing out screw poles for hex poles, or even try a different brand of strings. All these things will affect your sound. If these simple & cheap changes don't help you then perhaps you bought the wrong set of pickups. Don't fret - there are a ton of others out there that will likely fit the bill!
 
Re: My new JB/Jazz not quite right

Hmmm. I misread the original post and assumed he changed pots as well (import pickups come on import pots).

Yeah, you'll want to swap those out.

As for the volume thing, it's a bad choice of wiring IMO, but not a fault as in something's broken. I simply don't see the sense in killing the volume to the whole guitar with one pot when in the middle position.
That type of setup should only ever be wired so the middle position can be blended. It should be galactic law IMO.
 
Re: My new JB/Jazz not quite right

If the volume thing is just the way it is and it's nothing particularly wrong then I'm OK with that. The only reason I can think of why the volume gets wired like this would be if you're on half time on a gig, you're stood at the bar having a well earned break, your amp volume is still on full but the volume on your guitar is down to zero, now... if someone then comes on stage, accidently knocks your pup selector and it goes to the bridge where the volume is still on full, the amp would get a blast.

I suppose if it's a tube amp it would probably be in standby anyway so that wouldn't make any difference.

I've had a play around with the pup height and I've now got it set quite high but not so it interferes with playing. The pups are also level across the strings.

One thing I forgot to mention was that the strings are factory fitted so they're probably a big factor.

After reading your helpful comments, I don't think there is anything wrong with my new pups or the wiring. I think my expectations were a little higher than maybe they should have been.

I think also, I play from jazzy type all the way through to Chugging full on metal which is a lot to ask of just one set of pups. The JB/Jazz does the Jazzy/bluesy/rock thing fine but it's not chugging like I want at the other end. This may also have a lot to do with my amp.

I'll get there in the end. I have a Washburn X series hanging on my wall which has become a bit redundant with it's two head hunter humbuckers so I'm seriously thinking about putting a pair of EMG's in that to use for metal unless anyone can give me any more advise on this one.


Cheers for all your help though.

GaryM
 
Re: My new JB/Jazz not quite right

did you say you still have the original strings on there, Gary?
if you put some fresh strings on and double-check the pickup height as timod suggested and it still sounds weak, look at getting new components.
scottish's idea about the photo's a good one too
 
Re: My new JB/Jazz not quite right

i guess i dont understand that wiring diagram then so hopefully some1 can explain it to me. It looks to me like one pot should control neck volume and one bridge but it may not blend in the middle position. From the OP, it seems like he says if he has the neck volume all the way down and then switched to the bridge, the volume is also all the way down.

If thats the case...can some1 explain to how that works with the above posted diagram?
 
Re: My new JB/Jazz not quite right

i guess i dont understand that wiring diagram then so hopefully some1 can explain it to me. It looks to me like one pot should control neck volume and one bridge but it may not blend in the middle position. From the OP, it seems like he says if he has the neck volume all the way down and then switched to the bridge, the volume is also all the way down.

If thats the case...can some1 explain to how that works with the above posted diagram?

A schematic would explain things a littel better, but I think I can give a fairly clear explanation without. The way SD does their diagrams, the output from the volume is taken from the wiper (middle terminal). When volume is at 0, the output side of the pot is a 0 ohm resistance. When the pickups are blended, what you have is a short circuit in parallel with the pickup that is not zeroed out, and get no output.

If you wire things up the other way, with the pickup wire connected to the wiper, you are shorting out the input side of the circuit. When a volume pot is set to zero, what you see at the output of the pot is a 250K or 500K resistance. Putting that high a resistance in parallel with the other pickup is not going to have a noticable effect on output.

If that's not clear, I can try to draw up a schematic.
 
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