N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

[Metalman_666]

TL;DR I drove down to Chatham (~2 hrs from me) on the weekend and picked up an AX8 in mint condition with hundreds of extra IRs and a bunch of great purchased presets. Very surprised at how much I like the sounds and how different it is from what I expected. And it feels great! No, I will not abuse that generic high gain sound.

I remember seeing Leprous and Haken on Halloween in 2017, one using Kemper and the other Axe FX, and even the opening band didn't appear to have any physical amps or cabs on stage. Thinking about all the shows in the last four years and truthfully, it's been the same story! The music I'm listening to seems to really use the crap out of the distortion patches and while it can sound good, I've felt like I want to steer away from that sound for myself. There's a certain flavour of nasally, crunchy, snarly, singing gain that I always pictured was the main Axe FX sound. And then there are some players using it ONLY for its effects (can't help but wonder if that's actually true) so, it must be good.

My Mark IV is a great sound and has a special place in my heart, but gigging only a few times a year lately and working on my band's newest crop of songs I haven't had the luxury of miking up a cab and practising with a real-deal guitar speaker. For the last 3-4 years I've been running the Mark right into a Palmer PGA-04 which has really been a great solution complete with loadbox - but the tone from both gain channels consistently has this certain fizziness and congestion in the mids, almost like the amp has a cold, that I can't seem to get rid of, particularly with my Mayones Duvell and Schecter KM7. Yes, the Mark is very mid-forward but it doesn't have that same quality coming out of any cab I've used.

I rented a Line6 Helix LT from Long and McQuade in December and had kept it until this past weekend, screwing around with all the models and really trying to determine if all the I/O and the options within might be a better fit; maybe I should bite the bullet and go digital because it's that much easier to get a decent miked amp sound. It sounds good, but still there is something plasticky and just plain artificial about the feel and the sound. Many reports claim the Fractal gear eats the Helix for breakfast. Has anyone else felt like this was just because there are a ton of high-gain players using it? I was testing the Helix for its full capabilities from clean to mean, using my Mark in the 4CM with impulses, trying a bunch of models... meh.

A few guitarists I know keep raving about the Axe FX and the AX8 and I got restless - we're in quarantine, I know what my amp sounds like, and I don't have the patience to try and tweak the direct sound outside of the mixes I'm working on, or I'll just NEVER STOP. I stayed up late, hopped on Kijiji and lo and behold, a great deal pops up a few hundred bucks below the norm, so I made a deal and snagged it.

The first thing I noticed when I fired it up through my monitors, was it booted up to a stereotypical high gain Friedman patch. I laughed. Then I banged out a 7-string Bsus9 on my Mayones, and just *felt* it for a moment, at which point I started riffing, then soloing, and it was good. The patch wasn't quite up my alley but it sounded and felt good. I've since tweaked a couple of the paid presets and found some wonderful clean and low gain sounds in addition to an emulation of a Mark IV (USA Lead) that I have to say, sounds and feels better than the real thing through the Palmer. It actually responds very much like the live amp in the room during a gig or practice. The best thing is, that congested "cold-like" sound is gone.

So it's only been 3 whole days since I got it but I am just in awe of how flexible this thing is. I've barely scratched the surface and I'm wondering why I didn't give in sooner! I'll be able to use this for much more than metal sounds, whether it's through a real cab or direct, and the effects are really good across the board. I'm a believer now and I understand why Fractal gets a lot of praise.

Are there other users here? Anyone else who made the leap to digital long ago and never looked back? What limitations do you have now, or NOT have now? I won't be giving up my amp but man, I'm impressed.

 

[chadd]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

I went Kemper in January and love it. I still run mine intto a cab, but I love the variety of tones I have now.

 

[Mincer]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

The AX8 is remarkable. I've used it since it came out. There was talk of one final update on it, but it never happened. But the Fractal forum is a good one, with lots of great information. The Fender models are great. It does clean to just a little bit of overdrive tones really well, which isn't the case for a lot of modelers.
If you haven't read it yet, look at Yek's Guide to Amps. It really breaks down each amp, and he has downloadable amp block-only presets to really hear the differences.
He also wrote a guide to the Drive models, wonderful info there.

 

[Metalman_666]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

I did find Yek's guide and stayed up way too late on Monday night reading some of it. Really comprehensive and I love the comments from Cliff himself on some of the models.

It's crazy how big a difference was instantly noticeable between AX8 vs Helix. The chunk, snap, punch, twang, or cut of all my various guitars is there in any model I've tried so far, without the harshness of my direct rig or the Helix.

Any opinions on the stock cabs? Other than picking a few random factory presets, I've tried the Fremen presets for the Mark IIC++ and BE/HBE and some of those cabs are better than others.

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[Mincer]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

I think overall, the stock cabs are really good. I really like the clean and clear Fender-type cabs, but that is the kind of sound I use. It is amazing how much the cab choice can have on the overall sound. The few 4x12 cabs I've used have a ton of thump to them. If you can elaborate between the difference between the AX8 and the Helix...
I have an HX Effects, and was wondering about the Helix (still have the AX8)..so I guess I am not missing anything? What did the Helix do well?

 

[Metalman_666]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

I think overall, the stock cabs are really good. I really like the clean and clear Fender-type cabs, but that is the kind of sound I use. It is amazing how much the cab choice can have on the overall sound. The few 4x12 cabs I've used have a ton of thump to them. If you can elaborate between the difference between the AX8 and the Helix...

I have an HX Effects, and was wondering about the Helix (still have the AX8)..so I guess I am not missing anything? What did the Helix do well?

The clean sounds are great on both, but I found the biggest difference is adding any sort of gain. The Helix models had a stuffier sound to my ears, a texture I couldn't dial out, and didn't "feel" the same when responding to pick attack and that bouncy feeling under the hands. The AX8 immediately sounds more open and responds better IMO. There is just more virtual space everywhere even without reverb.

As far as UI, the Helix wins for sure. Having the built in expression pedal and the ease of editing is great. The effects are really good too, and all the I/O even on the LT version. It was just the amp models that were "ok". I spent some time on the Hiwatt, Divided by 13, Archon, Matchless and Friedman models and the Line 6 Epic - the originals are really good. Very versatile. Dialing in the Epic at low gain and high MV was as close to grail tone as I could get. But the Mark model was trash and way too stuffy.

Instant gratification with AX8 models and stock cabs. The UI difference is gone if using AX8-EDIT instead of trying to do it by hand, which is a bit of a pain.

A lot of people (mostly on L6 forum) claim the differences are negligible and that if you spend enough time tweaking, messing with EQ before and after various blocks, high and low cuts, and a bunch of other stuff, you won't notice. Well I don't have the patience to design a super-complex chain and add a pile of extra crap to get the sound I want. I just want to pick a model, maybe try some cabs, and use the modelled amp controls. If the feel isn't there, no amount of tone shaping will fix that, only mask it.

A couple of interesting posts I came across though, one from Cliff Chase explaining that most modeling tech uses a fairly "flat" algorithm that says "if the input level from the pickups is X, do Y" and that's it. Whereas Fractal is about modeling the entropy inside the amp, not just a straight "if this then that" rule that determines a model's sensitivity.

The other said Helix users say there's no difference; Fractal users say there's a huge difference; and the pros choose Fractal. So that speaks for itself.

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[Metalman_666]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

I went Kemper in January and love it. I still run mine intto a cab, but I love the variety of tones I have now.

How long did it take you to dial in the Kemper? Is it that much more scientific than the other options?

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[Mincer]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

The clean sounds are great on both, but I found the biggest difference is adding any sort of gain. The Helix models had a stuffier sound to my ears, a texture I couldn't dial out, and didn't "feel" the same when responding to pick attack and that bouncy feeling under the hands. The AX8 immediately sounds more open and responds better IMO. There is just more virtual space everywhere even without reverb.

As far as UI, the Helix wins for sure. Having the built in expression pedal and the ease of editing is great. The effects are really good too, and all the I/O even on the LT version. It was just the amp models that were "ok". I spent some time on the Hiwatt, Divided by 13, Archon, Matchless and Friedman models and the Line 6 Epic - the originals are really good. Very versatile. Dialing in the Epic at low gain and high MV was as close to grail tone as I could get. But the Mark model was trash and way too stuffy.

Instant gratification with AX8 models and stock cabs. The UI difference is gone if using AX8-EDIT instead of trying to do it by hand, which is a bit of a pain.

A lot of people (mostly on L6 forum) claim the differences are negligible and that if you spend enough time tweaking, messing with EQ before and after various blocks, high and low cuts, and a bunch of other stuff, you won't notice. Well I don't have the patience to design a super-complex chain and add a pile of extra crap to get the sound I want. I just want to pick a model, maybe try some cabs, and use the modelled amp controls. If the feel isn't there, no amount of tone shaping will fix that, only mask it.

A couple of interesting posts I came across though, one from Cliff Chase explaining that most modeling tech uses a fairly "flat" algorithm that says "if the input level from the pickups is X, do Y" and that's it. Whereas Fractal is about modeling the entropy inside the amp, not just a straight "if this then that" rule that determines a model's sensitivity.

The other said Helix users say there's no difference; Fractal users say there's a huge difference; and the pros choose Fractal. So that speaks for itself.

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Thanks for all of that. I may be just waiting to get a new FM3. I like my AX8, but could use something even smaller. I love the modeling on the AX8, and I know fans of Line 6 says what they have is the best, but look at Fractal's user list. Plus they update their stuf like every week (not the AX8 anymore, though).

 

[kramer.geetar]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

TL;DR I drove down to Chatham (~2 hrs from me) on the weekend and picked up an AX8 in mint condition with hundreds of extra IRs and a bunch of great purchased presets. Very surprised at how much I like the sounds and how different it is from what I expected. And it feels great! No, I will not abuse that generic high gain sound.

I remember seeing Leprous and Haken on Halloween in 2017, one using Kemper and the other Axe FX, and even the opening band didn't appear to have any physical amps or cabs on stage. Thinking about all the shows in the last four years and truthfully, it's been the same story! The music I'm listening to seems to really use the crap out of the distortion patches and while it can sound good, I've felt like I want to steer away from that sound for myself. There's a certain flavour of nasally, crunchy, snarly, singing gain that I always pictured was the main Axe FX sound. And then there are some players using it ONLY for its effects (can't help but wonder if that's actually true) so, it must be good.

My Mark IV is a great sound and has a special place in my heart, but gigging only a few times a year lately and working on my band's newest crop of songs I haven't had the luxury of miking up a cab and practising with a real-deal guitar speaker. For the last 3-4 years I've been running the Mark right into a Palmer PGA-04 which has really been a great solution complete with loadbox - but the tone from both gain channels consistently has this certain fizziness and congestion in the mids, almost like the amp has a cold, that I can't seem to get rid of, particularly with my Mayones Duvell and Schecter KM7. Yes, the Mark is very mid-forward but it doesn't have that same quality coming out of any cab I've used.

I rented a Line6 Helix LT from Long and McQuade in December and had kept it until this past weekend, screwing around with all the models and really trying to determine if all the I/O and the options within might be a better fit; maybe I should bite the bullet and go digital because it's that much easier to get a decent miked amp sound. It sounds good, but still there is something plasticky and just plain artificial about the feel and the sound. Many reports claim the Fractal gear eats the Helix for breakfast. Has anyone else felt like this was just because there are a ton of high-gain players using it? I was testing the Helix for its full capabilities from clean to mean, using my Mark in the 4CM with impulses, trying a bunch of models... meh.

A few guitarists I know keep raving about the Axe FX and the AX8 and I got restless - we're in quarantine, I know what my amp sounds like, and I don't have the patience to try and tweak the direct sound outside of the mixes I'm working on, or I'll just NEVER STOP. I stayed up late, hopped on Kijiji and lo and behold, a great deal pops up a few hundred bucks below the norm, so I made a deal and snagged it.

The first thing I noticed when I fired it up through my monitors, was it booted up to a stereotypical high gain Friedman patch. I laughed. Then I banged out a 7-string Bsus9 on my Mayones, and just *felt* it for a moment, at which point I started riffing, then soloing, and it was good. The patch wasn't quite up my alley but it sounded and felt good. I've since tweaked a couple of the paid presets and found some wonderful clean and low gain sounds in addition to an emulation of a Mark IV (USA Lead) that I have to say, sounds and feels better than the real thing through the Palmer. It actually responds very much like the live amp in the room during a gig or practice. The best thing is, that congested "cold-like" sound is gone.

So it's only been 3 whole days since I got it but I am just in awe of how flexible this thing is. I've barely scratched the surface and I'm wondering why I didn't give in sooner! I'll be able to use this for much more than metal sounds, whether it's through a real cab or direct, and the effects are really good across the board. I'm a believer now and I understand why Fractal gets a lot of praise.

Are there other users here? Anyone else who made the leap to digital long ago and never looked back? What limitations do you have now, or NOT have now? I won't be giving up my amp but man, I'm impressed.

Two things here. First off I was just looking at an AX8 online as a possible purchase and just saw your post. Second, we’re both from the same city!

I have a GT-100, and looking for a possible replacement in the future. I rented a Firehawk from L&M in Waterloo and thought it wasn’t that great. Had that typical Line 6 sound. The GT-100 sounded much better and at the time they had a sale on brand new ones, $100 off. I didn’t wanna spend a lot at the time, so that’s what I went with. Been happy with it but I keep hearing these amazing tones from the Fractals and it’s got me interested.
Definitely enjoyed reading your review. Gonna wait and see when Fractal releases a replacement and probably jump on it, or get an FM3.

 

[Mincer]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

The FM3 really is the replacement for the AX8. They want to either sell you a midi controller also, or have you live with just the 3 buttons of the FM3.

 

[kramer.geetar]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

The FM3 really is the replacement for the AX8. They want to either sell you a midi controller also, or have you live with just the 3 buttons of the FM3.

Ok, thanks. I kinda figured that after I post because on the Fractal website it shows the AX8 is now legacy and FM3 is new. I actually like the setup of the FM3 better, as it has a smaller footprint and I can add the type of wah or volume pedal that I want or other pedals to the chain and not end up with a pedalboard that looks like it could land the space shuttle.

 

[B2D]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

If the AX8 is now legacy and the FM3 is new, does this hint at a possible replacement for the FX8 as well?

I've toyed with the idea of committing to a digital rig, but I'm not the kind of person that likes getting into menus and scrolling and punching up settings. Then again I'm also not the kind of person that likes hunting down a bad patch cable in my pedal board like I did last night.

My answer possibly lies in incorporating something like the FX8 into my rig and retaining a few 'real' pedals like my secret preamp or something.

Thanks for the review, OP. Tell us more if you get deeper into it.

 

[kramer.geetar]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

If the AX8 is now legacy and the FM3 is new, does this hint at a possible replacement for the FX8 as well?

I've toyed with the idea of committing to a digital rig, but I'm not the kind of person that likes getting into menus and scrolling and punching up settings. Then again I'm also not the kind of person that likes hunting down a bad patch cable in my pedal board like I did last night.

My answer possibly lies in incorporating something like the FX8 into my rig and retaining a few 'real' pedals like my secret preamp or something.

Thanks for the review, OP. Tell us more if you get deeper into it.

If you go on Fractals website the FX8 is under the legacy tab as well.

 

[Metalman_666]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

If the AX8 is now legacy and the FM3 is new, does this hint at a possible replacement for the FX8 as well?

I've toyed with the idea of committing to a digital rig, but I'm not the kind of person that likes getting into menus and scrolling and punching up settings. Then again I'm also not the kind of person that likes hunting down a bad patch cable in my pedal board like I did last night.

My answer possibly lies in incorporating something like the FX8 into my rig and retaining a few 'real' pedals like my secret preamp or something.

Thanks for the review, OP. Tell us more if you get deeper into it.

I have always felt the same dude. Love having the real knobs and separate footswitches of real gear! The idea of having to program stuff and get granular never appealed to me, but experiencing the sheer quality of sound for myself makes me more open to it.

Plus if you have it connected via USB you can program EVERYTHING without the tiny screen and menus. I haven't even looked at all the submenus within the models, just the first page of amp settings, bright/fat switches etc. The basic settings give you enough tone shaping options and still retain the original character of the amp, and if you want to go into 4 or 5 extra layers of fine-tuning components and Poweramp voltage and stuff... It's all there but it's optional. You don't need to be a mad scientist to use the thing.

Sorry guys, there is way too much to say, it's just impossible for me not to gush! Lol

I feel l like I could use a real wah, my wireless, maybe my Flashback X4 if I had pedalboard space, and I'd be good to go. Every block has two "modes" called X and Y so you can footswitch between two amps or two wildly different settings in the same amp/effect/cab without preset lag. It's brilliant! Gave me a clean with chorus a la Rush on a Fender model, then tight mid-gain on a IIC+, followed by a delayed singing lead and then to a heavy wide rhythm sound, all in the same patch.

But I look forward to the first real gig test when it's possible.

The FM3 is definitely the successor to the AX8 and FX8. The guy I bought the AX8 from was on the waitlist for FM3 and got his name drawn, frankly I think having this much power and only 3 footswitches instead of 11, I'd feel very limited. For a "legacy" product the AX8 is still is very relevant.

@kramer.geetar I thought I was the only one around here! Whereabouts are you? Wonder if we've ever crossed paths at Maxwell's or downtown elsewhere. If you do find a used AX8 you should at least check it out.

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[Mincer]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

I don't think the FX8 sold well, so I doubt there will be a replacement. It was a great unit, though, and sounded much better than the AX8 without amp and cab models. The ins and outs were a lot cleaner, and there was a global looper that doesn't cut out when switching presets. But I think it is toast.

I like the smaller size of the FM3, and while I love the control over the AX8, I can just get a good midi controller.

 

[kramer.geetar]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

@kramer.geetar I thought I was the only one around here! Whereabouts are you? Wonder if we've ever crossed paths at Maxwell's or downtown elsewhere. If you do find a used AX8 you should at least check it out.

I doubt it, when I go out I usually hang out in downtown Waterloo at the bars with friends. Where do you go for guitar setup related things, a tech? I’ve know Mike Reinhart at Sherwood for a number of years. Good guy

 

[Metalman_666]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

I doubt it, when I go out I usually hang out in downtown Waterloo at the bars with friends. Where do you go for guitar setup related things, a tech? I’ve know Mike Reinhart at Sherwood for a number of years. Good guy

You mean "uptown" Waterloo! Haha. Well when this is all over, a local forum bro drink is in order.

Mike has been the guy for years, I went to him when he was working with Les Schatten and keep going to him at Sherwood. Minor tweaks I'll do at home but I'll go to him a few times a year. It's a shame he doesn't like crowds much, he'd be able to enjoy so many guitars he's worked on live!

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[kramer.geetar]

Re: N(P/A)D: Fractal AX8 surprise

You mean "uptown" Waterloo! Haha. Well when this is all over, a local forum bro drink is in order.

Mike has been the guy for years, I went to him when he was working with Les Schatten and keep going to him at Sherwood. Minor tweaks I'll do at home but I'll go to him a few times a year. It's a shame he doesn't like crowds much, he'd be able to enjoy so many guitars he's worked on live!

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Yea, I used to hang out with him in his shop all the time while he was downstairs in that basement at Sherwood. Now he’s got a much better setup. Definitely a more private guy. I think he’s just that busy that when he finishes work he just wants to relax rather than sit in a noisy bar. I know he’s gone to some local bigger concerts but that’s it.
Wouldn’t mind grabbing a beer