EpiphoneSG77
New member
I have an Ibanez S series with a unfinished maple neck and I would like info on what it would take to make it a gloss finish !!!
neck finish help needed!!!
- Thread starter EpiphoneSG77
- Start date
scottish
WeirdScienceologist
Re: neck finish help needed!!!
Tru oil will give you the glossiest of gloss finishes with some good buffing and it doesnt have the sticky feeling a gloss lacquer finish can develop. Highly endorse this for any maple neck.
Tru oil will give you the glossiest of gloss finishes with some good buffing and it doesnt have the sticky feeling a gloss lacquer finish can develop. Highly endorse this for any maple neck.
ItsaBass
New member
Re: neck finish help needed!!!
Good-ol' nitrocellulose lacquer is incredibly user friendly (easy to apply evenly, very easy to blend, very tolerant of imperfection, and very repairable), and it's plenty glossy. It doesn't wear as well as newer finishes, but that's about its only drawback. Sherwin Williams make the most traditional (I would argue "best") nitro lacquer out there. It's very pure - not a lot of additives or catalyzers. It dries fast and hard. But you need to thin it and spray it with a gun yourself; there is a bit of a learning curve, as well as an equipment curve. If you want to K.I.S.S. and spray from a can, I'd go with Re-Ranch, even though their spray nozzles suck ass. Deft is cheap, it can be found in almost every local hardware store, and the spray nozzles are excellent. However, it doesn't dry as completely or as quickly as the Sherwin Williams or Re-Ranch lacquers. I might use it on a body if I wanted something quick, cheap, and easy, but definitely not on a neck, as it would take months with good ventilation to lose that slightly tacky feel.
Good-ol' nitrocellulose lacquer is incredibly user friendly (easy to apply evenly, very easy to blend, very tolerant of imperfection, and very repairable), and it's plenty glossy. It doesn't wear as well as newer finishes, but that's about its only drawback. Sherwin Williams make the most traditional (I would argue "best") nitro lacquer out there. It's very pure - not a lot of additives or catalyzers. It dries fast and hard. But you need to thin it and spray it with a gun yourself; there is a bit of a learning curve, as well as an equipment curve. If you want to K.I.S.S. and spray from a can, I'd go with Re-Ranch, even though their spray nozzles suck ass. Deft is cheap, it can be found in almost every local hardware store, and the spray nozzles are excellent. However, it doesn't dry as completely or as quickly as the Sherwin Williams or Re-Ranch lacquers. I might use it on a body if I wanted something quick, cheap, and easy, but definitely not on a neck, as it would take months with good ventilation to lose that slightly tacky feel.
treyhaislip
New member
Re: neck finish help needed!!!
I prefer an unfinished/sanded neck with a very light oil finish. Tung Oil is amazing stuff–a little goes a LONG way!
The Nitro finish is amazing stuff, if you go that route be sure you protect yourself, that stuff is not the best thing for your lungs.
I prefer an unfinished/sanded neck with a very light oil finish. Tung Oil is amazing stuff–a little goes a LONG way!
The Nitro finish is amazing stuff, if you go that route be sure you protect yourself, that stuff is not the best thing for your lungs.
Re: neck finish help needed!!!
Obviously you don't live in California. State regulations have now made it next to impossible to buy lacquer. Can only order it online.
Obviously you don't live in California. State regulations have now made it next to impossible to buy lacquer. Can only order it online.
jtougas
New member
Re: neck finish help needed!!!
Or your brain (but most spray finishes aren't, soooo...).
FWIW, I second (or third, or fourth, depending on how you're counting) the TruOil and tung oil recommendations. Very easy to do, very easy to fix goofs, and feel fantastic.
Or your brain (but most spray finishes aren't, soooo...).
FWIW, I second (or third, or fourth, depending on how you're counting) the TruOil and tung oil recommendations. Very easy to do, very easy to fix goofs, and feel fantastic.
treyhaislip
New member
Re: neck finish help needed!!!
Yeah, def not good for your brain either lol
Tru Oil and Tung Oil are awesome stuff!
Yeah, def not good for your brain either lol
Tru Oil and Tung Oil are awesome stuff!
Johnny the Kid
Shaunofthedeadologist
Re: neck finish help needed!!!
I'd recommend TruOil. You can buy it at a gunshop for nothing and it's easy to apply. I did it over the summer when a friend was restocking his rifle. It's almost idiot proof (not saying you're an idiot just an expression).
I'd recommend TruOil. You can buy it at a gunshop for nothing and it's easy to apply. I did it over the summer when a friend was restocking his rifle. It's almost idiot proof (not saying you're an idiot just an expression).
treyhaislip
New member
Re: neck finish help needed!!!
As opposed to Linseed Oil which gets very sticky if too much is applied and not wiped off lol
As opposed to Linseed Oil which gets very sticky if too much is applied and not wiped off lol
ItsaBass
New member
Re: neck finish help needed!!!
I live in Los Angeles, born and raised. I buy my nitro at Sherwin-Williams. You can also buy Deft at any OSH store; it is kept in stock - gloss, semi-gloss, matte, and sanding sealer. I also get ReRanch shipments no questions asked. Sourcing the material has never been a problem for me.
The way the laws in question apply is all about volume. In other words, the existence of the material is not illegal, nor is its sale; limits for its use have been set. The laws are/were basically designed to end use of lacquers by auto paint shops, who were the main polluters due to the sheer volume of the stuff that they sprayed. Furniture restoration, guitar factories: fine, as long as you keep your volume under the limits. There's a body shop on practically every corner, and cars are large. Furniture and guitar manufacturers and restorers OTOH are few and far between, and they typically spray objects with much less surface area than cars. Again, it's all about volume. Fender can use it to an extent (Custom Shop and AVRI), but they wouldn't be allowed to use it on every guitar they make. B. Hefner (a Warmoth-esque kind of place) in Whittier uses it (it's the main reason he's in business), but his volume is kept track of so he stays below the legal limits. There are LOVOC formulas too, and they allow the larger operations to spray more lacquer.
The same sorts of statements about lacquer being kaput were all over the L.A. guitar shops in the '90's. It was pretty much universally believed that lacquer was a mythic, black market sort of thing by that point. Yet if you simply did your legal research and some footwork, and if you walked into a pro paint shop instead of listening to some guy behind the desk in a guitar shop, you could still buy it right off the shelf, not to mention Deft at any hardware store in rattle cans or quarts and gallons. Here we are 25 years after this supposed death of lacquer, and while it is less common now, it's still pretty much the same experience if you want to go buy some: you just call around to find out who carries it, and you go buy some. It's not some big hassle or back-alley thing like many love to make it seem.
We can blame these laws all we want, but the main reason lacquer has died off is about demand. The material has simply lost popularity in manufacturing, so it is less common to find in stock now. The use had dropped off long before these laws were even conceived. But it is still in demand in certain niches because of its traditionalism and ease of use (antique furniture restoration or reproduction for the most part). It's one of the best choices for low-volume at-home finishing, or in a low-volume shop, because it is a very workable and forgiving material. And it's still perfectly legal (and easy) to buy and use in CA for these purposes.
I live in Los Angeles, born and raised. I buy my nitro at Sherwin-Williams. You can also buy Deft at any OSH store; it is kept in stock - gloss, semi-gloss, matte, and sanding sealer. I also get ReRanch shipments no questions asked. Sourcing the material has never been a problem for me.
The way the laws in question apply is all about volume. In other words, the existence of the material is not illegal, nor is its sale; limits for its use have been set. The laws are/were basically designed to end use of lacquers by auto paint shops, who were the main polluters due to the sheer volume of the stuff that they sprayed. Furniture restoration, guitar factories: fine, as long as you keep your volume under the limits. There's a body shop on practically every corner, and cars are large. Furniture and guitar manufacturers and restorers OTOH are few and far between, and they typically spray objects with much less surface area than cars. Again, it's all about volume. Fender can use it to an extent (Custom Shop and AVRI), but they wouldn't be allowed to use it on every guitar they make. B. Hefner (a Warmoth-esque kind of place) in Whittier uses it (it's the main reason he's in business), but his volume is kept track of so he stays below the legal limits. There are LOVOC formulas too, and they allow the larger operations to spray more lacquer.
The same sorts of statements about lacquer being kaput were all over the L.A. guitar shops in the '90's. It was pretty much universally believed that lacquer was a mythic, black market sort of thing by that point. Yet if you simply did your legal research and some footwork, and if you walked into a pro paint shop instead of listening to some guy behind the desk in a guitar shop, you could still buy it right off the shelf, not to mention Deft at any hardware store in rattle cans or quarts and gallons. Here we are 25 years after this supposed death of lacquer, and while it is less common now, it's still pretty much the same experience if you want to go buy some: you just call around to find out who carries it, and you go buy some. It's not some big hassle or back-alley thing like many love to make it seem.
We can blame these laws all we want, but the main reason lacquer has died off is about demand. The material has simply lost popularity in manufacturing, so it is less common to find in stock now. The use had dropped off long before these laws were even conceived. But it is still in demand in certain niches because of its traditionalism and ease of use (antique furniture restoration or reproduction for the most part). It's one of the best choices for low-volume at-home finishing, or in a low-volume shop, because it is a very workable and forgiving material. And it's still perfectly legal (and easy) to buy and use in CA for these purposes.
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Re: neck finish help needed!!!
You make some interesting assumptions and insinuations.....
What makes you think I got my info from "some guy behind the desk in a guitar shop"? Actually, I have never talked to such a person regarding this.
I'm not talking about 25 year old laws or rumors in LA, I'm referring to recent legislation in the past year or so.
I have done my research. It seems that the Calif. Air Resourses Board has determined that the previous exemption for small businesses (Rule 1171) to purchase lacquer coating products would still allow them to purchase large amounts from shopping multiple sources. The lacquer thinners/solvents, however, are still available.
And I have done my footwork...yes, even to Sherwin Williams and OSH. SW is not buying it anymore due to the regulations. They used to keep a supply in stock, but checking all of the SW stores in the Sacramento area confirms that they are all out and will not buy any more. OSH, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. have been completely out of stock for quite awhile with no plans to buy any more. Even on-line sellers have decided not to ship to Calif due to the possibility that someone may purchase in bulk. However, there are still many on-line businesses that sell to Calif buyers in small quantities (eg: StewMac).
You make some interesting assumptions and insinuations.....
What makes you think I got my info from "some guy behind the desk in a guitar shop"? Actually, I have never talked to such a person regarding this.
I'm not talking about 25 year old laws or rumors in LA, I'm referring to recent legislation in the past year or so.
I have done my research. It seems that the Calif. Air Resourses Board has determined that the previous exemption for small businesses (Rule 1171) to purchase lacquer coating products would still allow them to purchase large amounts from shopping multiple sources. The lacquer thinners/solvents, however, are still available.
And I have done my footwork...yes, even to Sherwin Williams and OSH. SW is not buying it anymore due to the regulations. They used to keep a supply in stock, but checking all of the SW stores in the Sacramento area confirms that they are all out and will not buy any more. OSH, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. have been completely out of stock for quite awhile with no plans to buy any more. Even on-line sellers have decided not to ship to Calif due to the possibility that someone may purchase in bulk. However, there are still many on-line businesses that sell to Calif buyers in small quantities (eg: StewMac).
loversmoon
New member
Re: neck finish help needed!!!
I've had nice results with tru oil
I've had nice results with tru oil
Re: neck finish help needed!!!
I'm glad that you seem to have a source for all the lacquer you want down in LA.
Your comments made some assumptions and insinuations...
I wasn't talking about any 25 year old laws/regulations. I was referring to regulations in the past year or so. The Calif Air Resources Board was concerned that even small businesses could get around the quantity regulation exemption (rule 1171) by purchasing small quantities from several suppliers. Lacquer thinner is still freely available, however.
No I didn't get my info from "some guy behind the desk in a guitar shop". I've never even talked to such a person about this.
I actually have done my "footwork", at least in the Northern California/Sacramento area. All of the Sherwin Williams stores stopped buying lacquer earlier this year and have recently (in the past few months) sold out of their stock on hand. OSH, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. have been out for a year or so and have no intention to order any more due to the most recent VOC regulations. Many on-line stores will not ship to Calif due to the regs. There are still some, like StewMac, that will ship small quantities to Calif., but the prices have really gone up.
I'm glad that you seem to have a source for all the lacquer you want down in LA.
Your comments made some assumptions and insinuations...
I wasn't talking about any 25 year old laws/regulations. I was referring to regulations in the past year or so. The Calif Air Resources Board was concerned that even small businesses could get around the quantity regulation exemption (rule 1171) by purchasing small quantities from several suppliers. Lacquer thinner is still freely available, however.
No I didn't get my info from "some guy behind the desk in a guitar shop". I've never even talked to such a person about this.
I actually have done my "footwork", at least in the Northern California/Sacramento area. All of the Sherwin Williams stores stopped buying lacquer earlier this year and have recently (in the past few months) sold out of their stock on hand. OSH, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. have been out for a year or so and have no intention to order any more due to the most recent VOC regulations. Many on-line stores will not ship to Calif due to the regs. There are still some, like StewMac, that will ship small quantities to Calif., but the prices have really gone up.
ItsaBass
New member
Re: neck finish help needed!!!
I did not state or imply that you were talking about 25 year old regulations, or that you got your information from some guy behind the counter at a guitar shop. There were no assumption or insinuations made. The point of the paragraph about the '90's was that for years we have been hearing that the sky is falling regarding lacquer, but one shouldn't always believe everything one hears through the grapevine.
I'm not sure what the issues you're having are. I can order it through my usual Sherwin-Williams (just called to check), and OSH has a full shelf, at least as of three days ago (in fact, I'll be grabbing some Deft soon, as they are offering 20% off to veterans this week). It is not as common as it used to be; you have to look for it specifically now, as it's in low demand as a special-purpose finish. But that has been the case for many decades, due to falling demand.
I also never stated that you are wrong about new regulations. Me exceptions to your initial comments were because they seemed a bit overly dramatic: "Obviously" I don't live in California, and its' "next to impossible" to get the stuff. The stuff isn't going to go away completely. The little demand that does exist for it comes from those who – if they are still using it at this point – are very dedicated to the material, and there is little environmental impact from their low use of it, so if they ever decide to fight for it, they will likely be allowed exceptions. Just like photographic film, even if it turns into a low-production, boutique, or even homebrew-only material, it will not go away completely.
I did not state or imply that you were talking about 25 year old regulations, or that you got your information from some guy behind the counter at a guitar shop. There were no assumption or insinuations made. The point of the paragraph about the '90's was that for years we have been hearing that the sky is falling regarding lacquer, but one shouldn't always believe everything one hears through the grapevine.
I'm not sure what the issues you're having are. I can order it through my usual Sherwin-Williams (just called to check), and OSH has a full shelf, at least as of three days ago (in fact, I'll be grabbing some Deft soon, as they are offering 20% off to veterans this week). It is not as common as it used to be; you have to look for it specifically now, as it's in low demand as a special-purpose finish. But that has been the case for many decades, due to falling demand.
I also never stated that you are wrong about new regulations. Me exceptions to your initial comments were because they seemed a bit overly dramatic: "Obviously" I don't live in California, and its' "next to impossible" to get the stuff. The stuff isn't going to go away completely. The little demand that does exist for it comes from those who – if they are still using it at this point – are very dedicated to the material, and there is little environmental impact from their low use of it, so if they ever decide to fight for it, they will likely be allowed exceptions. Just like photographic film, even if it turns into a low-production, boutique, or even homebrew-only material, it will not go away completely.
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kramersteen
PowerMetalRaph
Re: neck finish help needed!!!
I beg your pardon. What the heck does this mean..."Yet if you simply did your legal research and some footwork, and if you walked into a pro paint shop instead of listening to some guy behind the desk in a guitar shop"...?
I told you what my issues are...I can't find a source in the greater Sacramento area, and ALL of the stores tell me the same thing...because of the latest VOS regulations, they have no lacquer in stock and are not about to order any more.
Well, I'm glad that LA seems to be a different state than Northern California and that you readily have it available from several sources. I'm jealous. I certainly wish that were the case here.
Oh give me a break. If you weren't stating that I was wrong about the regulations, what does this mean..."Yet if you simply did your legal research"...?
It IS next to impossible to get it up here. There's no drama in that. It's fact, pure and simple. Do you think I haven't tried to get it?!
I beg your pardon. What the heck does this mean..."Yet if you simply did your legal research and some footwork, and if you walked into a pro paint shop instead of listening to some guy behind the desk in a guitar shop"...?
I told you what my issues are...I can't find a source in the greater Sacramento area, and ALL of the stores tell me the same thing...because of the latest VOS regulations, they have no lacquer in stock and are not about to order any more.
Well, I'm glad that LA seems to be a different state than Northern California and that you readily have it available from several sources. I'm jealous. I certainly wish that were the case here.
Oh give me a break. If you weren't stating that I was wrong about the regulations, what does this mean..."Yet if you simply did your legal research"...?
It IS next to impossible to get it up here. There's no drama in that. It's fact, pure and simple. Do you think I haven't tried to get it?!
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ItsaBass
New member
Re: neck finish help needed!!!
This is what I wrote:
"The same sorts of statements about lacquer being kaput were all over the L.A. guitar shops in the '90's. It was pretty much universally believed that lacquer was a mythic, black market sort of thing by that point. Yet if you simply did your legal research and some footwork, and if you walked into a pro paint shop instead of listening to some guy behind the desk in a guitar shop, you could still buy it right off the shelf, not to mention Deft at any hardware store in rattle cans or quarts and gallons. Here we are 25 years after this supposed death of lacquer, and while it is less common now, it's still pretty much the same experience if you want to go buy some: you just call around to find out who carries it, and you go buy some. It's not some big hassle or back-alley thing like many love to make it seem."
The paragraph is impeccably clear in meaning. Sentences 1–3 describe the '90's. To paraphrase them: There used to be similar rumors of lacquers demise, but the stuff could still be found with no real problem. Sentences 4–5 describe today. To paraphrase them: There's a bit more of a problem, but the stuff can still be found. Neither of these sentences refer to or address any individual here on this forum. Additionally, your quotation of my statement was used out of the context of the paragraph, distorting its meaning. Reasonably, you can't isolate a sentence from a paragraph, interpret it out of context, get your Underoos in a bunch over it, and expect anyone to take your offense seriously.
The true implication of the paragraph is not that you got your current information from some guy behind the counter at a guitar store – but that you are, with your highly exaggerated post, now acting the role of the guy behind the counter at a guitar store 20 years ago.
In this exchange you have shown unnecessary exaggeration to make statements that are not entirely true, extremely poor reading comprehension, extreme emotional sensitivity, anger, rudeness, and arrogance. What I have done is to coldly, calmly, and cordially state the facts as I understand them, my experiences as I have experienced them, and how I interpret these things. If you, as it seems, have a major problem with anything I have stated, this problem is rooted within your own mind. I've been very impersonal and mostly objective this entire time. All I can say at this point is, please stop communicating with me. I don't want to interact with people who behave like you are behaving in this thread.
This is what I wrote:
"The same sorts of statements about lacquer being kaput were all over the L.A. guitar shops in the '90's. It was pretty much universally believed that lacquer was a mythic, black market sort of thing by that point. Yet if you simply did your legal research and some footwork, and if you walked into a pro paint shop instead of listening to some guy behind the desk in a guitar shop, you could still buy it right off the shelf, not to mention Deft at any hardware store in rattle cans or quarts and gallons. Here we are 25 years after this supposed death of lacquer, and while it is less common now, it's still pretty much the same experience if you want to go buy some: you just call around to find out who carries it, and you go buy some. It's not some big hassle or back-alley thing like many love to make it seem."
The paragraph is impeccably clear in meaning. Sentences 1–3 describe the '90's. To paraphrase them: There used to be similar rumors of lacquers demise, but the stuff could still be found with no real problem. Sentences 4–5 describe today. To paraphrase them: There's a bit more of a problem, but the stuff can still be found. Neither of these sentences refer to or address any individual here on this forum. Additionally, your quotation of my statement was used out of the context of the paragraph, distorting its meaning. Reasonably, you can't isolate a sentence from a paragraph, interpret it out of context, get your Underoos in a bunch over it, and expect anyone to take your offense seriously.
The true implication of the paragraph is not that you got your current information from some guy behind the counter at a guitar store – but that you are, with your highly exaggerated post, now acting the role of the guy behind the counter at a guitar store 20 years ago.
In this exchange you have shown unnecessary exaggeration to make statements that are not entirely true, extremely poor reading comprehension, extreme emotional sensitivity, anger, rudeness, and arrogance. What I have done is to coldly, calmly, and cordially state the facts as I understand them, my experiences as I have experienced them, and how I interpret these things. If you, as it seems, have a major problem with anything I have stated, this problem is rooted within your own mind. I've been very impersonal and mostly objective this entire time. All I can say at this point is, please stop communicating with me. I don't want to interact with people who behave like you are behaving in this thread.
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