Neck pickup for fretless electric to be used alot with Ebow - concerns

pjd3

New member
Thanks for taking time for this.

I'm in the process of building a fret-less electric guitar that will mostly be used with an Ebow. I just really wanted something like a guitar that would give some controllable dynamics/sustain, unlimited gliss with some "strings" like expression. The body is walnut and the neck is mahogany with a black ebony fret-less fingerboard.

My main concern is how the choice of pickup will manifest in tone, primarily the higher frequencies. I've noticed that those playing fretless guitars with an Ebow seem to collectively manifest a loss of shimmering highs, the kind of highs that don't get lost with fretted guitars. This doesn't surprise me assuming that the combination of the string meeting wood and skin is going to cause a significant degree of damping in the higher frequencies - and maybe that couple with the fact that the majority of Ebow users seem to gravitate to humbucking pickups which could also add to a roll off of those more sparkly frequencies.

Naturally, I'm going to have to experiment to truely know which pickup will be best suited for this fret-less Ebow project but, I wanted to ask your suggestions on what pickups might work to compensate for the damped loss of highs. I suppose I'm looking for pickups that are exceptionally bright and have unusually or overly extended and predominant band of high frequencies. And I'd be interested also in hearing about humbuckers as well as single coils. If a humbucker, I would have every intention of wiring it for series, parallel cut coil to take advantage of all the response possibilities. Of course, I may find out that it is some single coil that is going to do it for me. It may end up being one of those 4K lipstick pickups! And that's OK if that's what it takes in the end. But, I know I'll need to try a few and your input, comments and opinions will be very welcome regardless of what I end up using. Your suggestions may give me a good starting point. I'm very excited about what this instrument might do when its done.

Thank you all,

Phil Donovan
 
Re: Neck pickup for fretless electric to be used alot with Ebow - concerns

P-Rails might be a good idea since various sonic spectrum is available at your disposal. And work with capacitors too if needed
 
Neck pickup for fretless electric to be used alot with Ebow - concerns

I have an ebow, and I don't notice the lack of highs. I don't use it to play like a violin though. I use it for long sustained notes that are on the verge of feeding back. And it works awesome for this. The sound is never dull, unless I do fast runs. Then the ebow doesn't have the time to fully excite the string before I move on.

I think the "lack of highs" is the lack of the pick attack. And that to me is the whole reason to use the ebow in the first place...

Edit: oh, fretless...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Re: Neck pickup for fretless electric to be used alot with Ebow - concerns

Thanks for the responses. I did a search for "Brightest pickup" after my post and the suggestions for Humbucker from Hell, Jazz neck and P-Rails were brought up a few times so, those are ones I'll need to take a look at for sure. I also noticed a few suggestions for placing a capacitor (.022uF or .047uF) in series with the hot wire. Those P-Rails have been interesting me since I heard about them, and they do seem to offer a substantial number of electrical and magnet configurations.

Another question of mine that is not answered yet is if the Ebow responds differently to the different magnet types and coil windings. I'm sure they do to some extent, to what extent I'm not sure. It would probably be wise for me to go into a Guitar Center and try out the Ebow on a bunch of different pickup types taking note of how each responds depending on the characteristics of the Pickup. Thanks alot folks, this is a cool venture and I appreciate your input. Lots of good stuff to try in the future coming right up!

Thanks!
Phil
 
Re: Neck pickup for fretless electric to be used alot with Ebow - concerns

Humbucker From Hell is suppose to be one of the brightest.

Just a thought, the Dimebucker gets incredible harmonics and responded extremely well to the eBow when I was was playing it (guitar was a Walnut San Dimas with a Mahogany+Rosewood neck and board.)
 
Re: Neck pickup for fretless electric to be used alot with Ebow - concerns

Funny, I use an Ebow a lot, and I avoid bright, open pickups. Generally my tone is down to about 2, and I throw a long delay or reverb on it. I have used the P-Rails with one, and used it in series humbucking, as I don't like the piercing highs I get from it split (with an Ebow- the pickups themselves don't have piercing highs). I use 2 Ebows, a modern one, and one made in '76, the first year.
 
Re: Neck pickup for fretless electric to be used alot with Ebow - concerns

Thanks for commenting Mincer. I find that the highs and harmonics are present pretty well on a standard fretted guitars with Ebow but, all of the vids I've seen of fretless guitars have a very apparent roll off of highs so it seems. I use an Ebow with my fretted Strat often and there is no lack of highs for sure. I just fear the damping of the wood and finger on a fretless have a huge impact on the presence of higher harmonics. I'm still in the discover phase though so, nothing is totally sure yet!

Thanks, Phil
 
Re: Neck pickup for fretless electric to be used alot with Ebow - concerns

Thanks Trey, I'll take a look at those Dimebuckers. "Inredible harmonics" is something I'll want present in the mix! At least to have alot of harmonics available, and if I need to temper them, I can try using the tone pot or EQ. I just hope on a fretless the harmonics are there in the guitar to begin with.

Thanks, Phil
 
Re: Neck pickup for fretless electric to be used alot with Ebow - concerns

I play fretless and yes the ebow is one thing, but the treble characteristics are inherent in the skin/fretboard combination.

Seems to me on one hand, you want a ceramic magnet instead of the rounded highs you get from Alnicos. On the other hand I like reduced string pull on fretless because you need all the sustain you can get. (Though the ebow helps with that)

For passives I would recommend the PATB Distortion bridge. High output and high compression are good characteristics for a fretless pickup, and the PATB pole pieces distribute the magnetic field well. The Dimebucker would be okay as well. If you really want the top end sparkle use the PATB Stack single coil. It's got a lot of crisp highs.

If you don't mind a battery then the Fluence Modern set has an incredible amount of high end detail, plus the output, plus the coil split option, etc. the dynamics aren't compressed but the notes stay more up front as the note decays. And they have blades so again you can get them close to the strings without a negative impact on sustain.
 
Re: Neck pickup for fretless electric to be used alot with Ebow - concerns

the treble characteristics are inherent in the skin/fretboard combination.

^
This.

No frets. No metal to metal contact. Fewer of those overtones.

If you are going to play with distortion, this will reinstate some of the high frequency content.

 
Re: Neck pickup for fretless electric to be used alot with Ebow - concerns

Hello, and thank you for some very generous input. As a result, I'm going to start this nutso project using a Dimbucker. Can anyone tell me how long the 4-conductor cables are that come with these pickups? I'm trying to figure out if it will reach the electronics cavity and switch. I'm using an on/on/on DPDT for series/parallel/cut coil config. If it doesn't reach, I would have to by up some appropriate cable to make up for the distance.

Thank you all, great advice here,

Phil
 
Re: Neck pickup for fretless electric to be used alot with Ebow - concerns

I haven't measured, but I think you will be fine. The cable is pretty long.
 
Re: Neck pickup for fretless electric to be used alot with Ebow - concerns

Thanks Mincer, I should figure that pickup leads are made to reach the cavities of typical guitars.

Thanks!

Phil
 
Re: Neck pickup for fretless electric to be used alot with Ebow - concerns

Thanks to all of you for the great responses and quality feedback.

I decided to go with the Dimebucker and so far I don't regret it. There are no lack of highs whatsoever and the 6-8 hours of test run I've done with this Ebow fretless has significantly surpassed my expectations. Its amazing that Seymour and the guys/gals were able to coax as much open high frequency energy as they did out of a HB with the series ohmic resistance that this pickup yields. Just goes to show you. I did read that other design elements were applied to get the resonant freq at over 5Kohms. There is almost too much highs but you know what? I'm good with that. Its much better to EQ out a bit of highs than to try and put it in. Plus, my fairly brief initial test was done through a POD XT which is a bunch of bright amp simulations for the most part. It was still awesome. I'm eager to put it through my Seventh Circle direct-to-mic pre module, into my Neve-like N72 into the B16 compressor. Thats next. I was also pleasantly surprised at the different tones with series, parallel and cut coil. As expected, parallel and cut coil were "thinner" renditions of the series config and I'd say very useful. I can picture using series for say, the main melodies and use parallel or cut coil for background layered harmonies all panned out and quadrupled. Very excited now about developing chops and intonation with this. Even after only 8 hours or so, my intonation was making leaps towards intuneness. Its not easy, very very demanding but one I'm willing to take on.

Thanks everybody and as soon as I make a few more finishing tweaks to this instrument I'll pick a tune, draw out an arrangement, track/mix and come back so show you what I've got. All of this makes me wonder how the other recommended pickups mentioned in this thread would do. Perhaps someday!

Thanks again for all your great assistance!
 
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