Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

[Niloy63]

Hey guys,

I need some help with some noise issues I've been having. For the first time ever, I added a compression pedal to my chain (Boss CS-3). It works great except for one scenario, and that's when I'm in the higher gain channels with both the overdrive pedal (Maxon ST-9 Pro+) and the compression pedal (Boss CS-3) on together. My ISP Decimator (known for shutting down even the most outrageous amp humming/hissing/feedback) can't even control the noise. There's no problem when the overdrive pedal is off. In case my explanation was confusing, here's a simple breakdown:

High gain channel + compression + Decimator --> No humming/hissing
High gain channel + compression + overdrive + Decimator --> Lots of humming and hissing :smack:

I like using the overdrive to tighten the high gain on heavier passages for that extra definition, so I don't want to get rid of that. I'd rather forgo the compression pedal than the overdrive/booster, if it comes down to the two. In case it helps, here's some info and pics of the gear I'm using:

Amp Head: Mesa Dual Rec. Roadster
Cab: Avatar 2x12 (1 Celestion Vintage 30 + 1 Celestion G12-T75)
Main Guitar: Gibson Les Paul (Duncan Custom/Pearly Gates p'ups)
Pedals

In Front of the Amp: Wah (Ibanez Weeping Demon) > Compression (Boss CS-3) > Overdrive (Maxon ST-9 Pro+) > Decimator II​

FX Loop: EQ (Boss GE-7) > Chorus (Boss CE-5) > Delay (Boss DD-3)​

I tried the Decimator in the FX Loop. I figured the Loop would be the best place for it, since I prefer to use Mesa's gain channels rather than distortion pedals. But when both the compression and overdrive pedals are on together, the Decimator is simply not cutting it.

Please lay upon me your collective wisdom my friends. :headbang: I appreciate your time!


-Niloy


ps - a couple more pics in case you're bored.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

Do you own a cable tester?

 

[Niloy63]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

Do you own a cable tester?

Thanks for the reply!

Unfortunately, I do not. I suppose I could go grab one if need be.

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

Bump...I have alot of hiss with my 5:50 express aswell but I have the master cranked and use the gain as the volume control so that makes it hiss quite a bit

 

[Niloy63]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

Bump...I have alot of hiss with my 5:50 express aswell but I have the master cranked and use the gain as the volume control so that makes it hiss quite a bit

I see. That hiss is never fun to hear. I have a question, though. Wouldn't using the 'gain' knob change your tone more than your volume? Why wouldn't you want to do it the other way around, with the gain set at the tone you want, and just alter the volume using the master?

 

[ErikH]

Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

What you are experiencing is normal based on what is in the signal chain. Overdrives increase saturation and in addition, increases any noise that is in the circuit. There's also natural compression from the overdrive. Keep that in mind.

A compressor also amplifies the signal so by engaging the compressor, you're amplifying the noise already increased by the overdrive which only makes that noise stand out more. What you also need to do is set the threshold so that it does not amplify it too much, and it sounds like that is what is going on. You may also need to back off the gain on the overdrive so it's not so saturated.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

Your compressor should be the first pedal in the chain. Try moving the compressor, and I'd try moving the OD, especially in relationship to the wah.

Make sure your patch cables are good...you could have a ground issue. Substitute.

Try the compressor using a different power supply, like a One-Spot, or the Boss adaptor. Try using the battery.

You can always try to call the Mesa and Boss tech support lines and they might be able to help.

Good luck.

Bill

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

I would say go grab a cable tester. I have one, they're inexpensive, and it's my best friend. It's been so useful, especially in a church environment where there's millions of cables, but also on my own rig. Once I experienced some hum and it ended up being a short cable that was slowly starting to bleed from tip to sleeve. Replaced it, hum immediately vanished.

 

[Niloy63]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

What you are experiencing is normal based on what is in the signal chain. Overdrives increase saturation and in addition, increases any noise that is in the circuit. There's also natural compression from the overdrive. Keep that in mind.

A compressor also amplifies the signal so by engaging the compressor, you're amplifying the noise already increased by the overdrive which only makes that noise stand out more. What you also need to do is set the threshold so that it does not amplify it too much, and it sounds like that is what is going on. You may also need to back off the gain on the overdrive so it's not so saturated.

I appreciate the info. It makes a lot of sense. My question would be this... theoretically, shouldn't the ISP Decimator be able to wipe this erroneous sound?

Your compressor should be the first pedal in the chain. Try moving the compressor, and I'd try moving the OD, especially in relationship to the wah.
Make sure your patch cables are good...you could have a ground issue. Substitute.
Try the compressor using a different power supply, like a One-Spot, or the Boss adaptor. Try using the battery.
You can always try to call the Mesa and Boss tech support lines and they might be able to help.
Good luck.

Bill

I'll try that today. I always thought that your OD comes in right after your wah. I'm guessing the compression would NOT be well suited in the Loop. I'll try it before the Wah. But then where would you suggest I put the OD? Thanks for the advise, friend.

I would say go grab a cable tester. I have one, they're inexpensive, and it's my best friend. It's been so useful, especially in a church environment where there's millions of cables, but also on my own rig. Once I experienced some hum and it ended up being a short cable that was slowly starting to bleed from tip to sleeve. Replaced it, hum immediately vanished.

You're the second person to suggest that, so it's becoming clear that I need to get one of those. It would be ridiculously irritating if I found out this whole time that the cause of the noise was a faulty patch cable. :smack: LOL

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

I see. That hiss is never fun to hear. I have a question, though. Wouldn't using the 'gain' knob change your tone more than your volume? Why wouldn't you want to do it the other way around, with the gain set at the tone you want, and just alter the volume using the master?

I just figured master cranked and using the gain as volume control would get me the most clean headroom

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

you were right Niloy... the mesa is different from other amps I guess I found this on the manual


The taper of the GAIN control is calibrated such that at the lower settings 9:30 - 11:00 the sound will be very
bright and skinny, as you approach 12:00 – 2:00 warmth and richness appears and the signal stays clean.

this would explain the spikey cleans I have experienced lately !

 

[ErikH]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

I appreciate the info. It makes a lot of sense. My question would be this... theoretically, shouldn't the ISP Decimator be able to wipe this erroneous sound?

Only if it is below the threshold of what the decimator can handle. The noise is probably at a frequency and level that the decimator doesn't catch.

 

[Niloy63]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

you were right Niloy... the mesa is different from other amps I guess I found this on the manual


The taper of the GAIN control is calibrated such that at the lower settings 9:30 - 11:00 the sound will be very
bright and skinny, as you approach 12:00 – 2:00 warmth and richness appears and the signal stays clean.

this would explain the spikey cleans I have experienced lately !

I'm glad to hear it worked, my friend! :bigok:
And yes, I agree! Mesas seem to run a bit differently than other amps.

Only if it is below the threshold of what the decimator can handle. The noise is probably at a frequency and level that the decimator doesn't catch.

That's unfortunate. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[everdrone]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

lol I love the obligatory full pics of the rig

I have the decimator gstring and run tons of compression thru it and it defintely can be adjusted to limits. compression is distortion and its not gonna pick up all of the noise if you are running it all like that. just turn down the distortion and mix to your liking,

like baking a cake

 

[Niloy63]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

lol I love the obligatory full pics of the rig

I have the decimator gstring and run tons of compression thru it and it defintely can be adjusted to limits. compression is distortion and its not gonna pick up all of the noise if you are running it all like that. just turn down the distortion and mix to your liking,

like baking a cake

Hahaha... definitely obligatory, otherwise I'd expect this :butkick:, followed by this utahere:. Lol I figured I'd cover my bases by posting more than less.

The gain on the amp on channel 3 is only at 1 o'clock. I'll turn it down a bit like you suggested and see what happens. But I have the drive on my OD pedal all the down to 0. I use it just to tighten up the tone a hair. This may sound like a ridiculous question, so bear with me... do you think the pedal may be too close to the amp because of the high amp gain + OD + compression?

 

[everdrone]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

Its good that you realize you are dealing with TONS OF NOISE!!!



here are my friendly suggestions:

1) reconfigure your noisegate. Mine is set for two loops: one to reduce pickup noise from the guitar, and one to reduce pedal noise. there are two loops, it has been written many times about the gstring decimator about this and is in the manual.


3) use top of the line electricity purifiers from Furman

4) determine the source of the noise: if it is a pedal etc you gotta figure this out

5) if you need more distortion then consider amps and pedals with builtin noisegate

I dig dirt! my fuzz pedal is pretty noisy when I silence the pedals, I adjust my guitar's volume knob, the pedal knobs, amp knobs for whatever tone I am seeking. Cheers :beerchug:

 

[Niloy63]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

Its good that you realize you are dealing with TONS OF NOISE!!!



here are my friendly suggestions:

1) reconfigure your noisegate. Mine is set for two loops: one to reduce pickup noise from the guitar, and one to reduce pedal noise. there are two loops, it has been written many times about the gstring decimator about this and is in the manual.


3) use top of the line electricity purifiers from Furman

4) determine the source of the noise: if it is a pedal etc you gotta figure this out

5) if you need more distortion then consider amps and pedals with builtin noisegate

I dig dirt! my fuzz pedal is pretty noisy when I silence the pedals, I adjust my guitar's volume knob, the pedal knobs, amp knobs for whatever tone I am seeking. Cheers :beerchug:

Solid advise, man. I appreciate the input! I'll work on your suggestions and see what kind of mayhem I can produce. :headbang:


Niloy

ps - always good to see a fellow Texan in here! :beerchug:

 

[Rodney Gene]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

Another Texan...for 10 years only! LOL.

Hey, your effects chain was spot on. Wah first-then Comp. Just as you had it stated in the OP. ODs generally do come after comps, but if you use a rhythm OD, it works well before the comp though there is no fast rule. BTW, what hasn't been mentioned is that the CS-3 is just a noisy pedal in general. One of the noisiest. It is very evident when you have 3-4 comps to compare with. It adds noise when it is on (despite the natural noise increase of all compressors) it is a real 'squeezer' non transparent comp. When yo get any controls up past 4-5 it can get serious! Mine is a vintage from the 80's and it is brutal, but I can get away with it because my gain levels are low in the rig I have it in. Genuinely, if you want squeeze and transient control without noise, look into a Wampler Ego or the like. Cheers! respect, RG

 

[Niloy63]

Re: Need Help w/ Pedal-Noise in a Mesa Roadster (even w/ ISP Decimator) - Pics

Another Texan...for 10 years only! LOL.

Hey, your effects chain was spot on. Wah first-then Comp. Just as you had it stated in the OP. ODs generally do come after comps, but if you use a rhythm OD, it works well before the comp though there is no fast rule. BTW, what hasn't been mentioned is that the CS-3 is just a noisy pedal in general. One of the noisiest. It is very evident when you have 3-4 comps to compare with. It adds noise when it is on (despite the natural noise increase of all compressors) it is a real 'squeezer' non transparent comp. When yo get any controls up past 4-5 it can get serious! Mine is a vintage from the 80's and it is brutal, but I can get away with it because my gain levels are low in the rig I have it in. Genuinely, if you want squeeze and transient control without noise, look into a Wampler Ego or the like. Cheers! respect, RG

Ah ha! Whether for 10 years or 10 minutes, a Texan is still a Texan. :headbang: I better keep the whole Texas-routine down before the entire board thinks we're a bunch of conglomerating elitists!

Thanks for the heads up, RG! Do you think there's a mod'ing service out there for the excess noise associated with the CS-3? If everdone's suggestions don't pan out, I may have to look into new pedals like you suggested. I've never tried a Wampler pedal before... don't know much about them other than they produce pedals. Perhaps I should go do some more research before I open my trap about it! :bigeyes: I tend to suffer from foot-in-mouth disease this time of year. LOL