Need some help setting up my guitar

[Reee]

I'm too ill to go to the luthier (1hour train ride in this hot weather) and i'm having some action/relief problems on my guitar, it's a charvel san dimas without truss rod wheel.

The problem is that the action is too high on the higher frets and frets out there too when i do big bends. i need to get it back to where it's a comfortable medium action where i can do big bends in the high register, but my knowledge of physics (or guitar setups) is too limited to know wether i have to add relief or straighten the neck.

any help appreciated

 

[Hollywood Rock]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

To fix that, I loosen the truss rod and then lower the action at the bridge. That makes the action more the same up the neck instead of gradually getting higher towards the higher frets.

 

[Reee]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

To fix that, I loosen the truss rod and then lower the action at the bridge. That makes the action more the same up the neck instead of gradually getting higher towards the higher frets.

so i was doing it wrong! i was tightening the truss rod and raising the bridge instead!

how much should i loosen it? the truss rod is now at the limit of clockwise turning, should i give it 2 quarter turns counterclockwise?

 

[NegativeEase]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

If a small truss rodd adjustment doesn't hell, measure the height of your and bridge saddles -as you may be fighting a losing war with the truss rod if the bridge is too high too.

 

[Reee]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

If a small truss rodd adjustment doesn't hell, measure the height of your and bridge saddles -as you may be fighting a losing war with the truss rod if the bridge is too high too.

what do you mean? the bridge is a original floyd rose, so the saddles are set to the standard floyd radius.

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

To fix that, I loosen the truss rod and then lower the action at the bridge. That makes the action more the same up the neck instead of gradually getting higher towards the higher frets.

WHAT THE HELL? You adjust the truss rod so the neck is close to flat or with just a smidge of bow (downward curve). Then you adjust the bridge height, and then the nut. Perhaps that is not what was meant - but don't just loosen the truss rod willy-nilly.

 

[Reee]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

WHAT THE HELL? You adjust the truss rod so the neck is close to flat or with just a smidge of bow (downward curve). Then you adjust the bridge height, and then the nut. Perhaps that is not what was meant - but don't just loosen the truss rod willy-nilly.

i suspect the neck might be a bit too flat right now? so loosening it a bit might be appropriate?

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

Use the string as a straight edge
Capo first fret
Hold string on highest fret
Look at the height over the 12th fret

How high is it
Is it touching

 

[Reee]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

Use the string as a straight edge
Capo first fret
Hold string on highest fret
Look at the height over the 12th fret

How high is it
Is it touching

yeah, or very close to touching

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

i suspect the neck might be a bit too flat right now? so loosening it a bit might be appropriate?

Loosening it will make it flat, yes - or overbow it depending on the truss rod. Tighten it a little. You want the neck almost flat, or with a little downward bow (aka relief).

 

[NegativeEase]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

what do you mean? the bridge is a original floyd rose, so the saddles are set to the standard floyd radius.

If you are confident the height is correct -disregard.

 

[Reee]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

Loosening it will make it flat, yes - or overbow it depending on the truss rod. Tighten it a little. You want the neck almost flat, or with a little downward bow (aka relief).

loosening the truss rod should give it relief right?

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

Within a certain range, yes.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

People tend to overdiagnose action problems as truss rod issues. Unless the guitar's initial setup was done bad or you moved the guitar to an area with a different climate, there is little reason to adjust the truss rod.

A good number of my guitars have only had a single truss rod adjustment in the time that I've had them. Heck, some of the earlier electric (and still quite a lot of the newer classical) guitars didn't come with truss rods.

I agree with the others, the initial issue was most likely with the bridge or nut height, but now since you fiddled around with it, I guess you have to do some truss rod work.

 

[Reee]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

People tend to overdiagnose action problems as truss rod issues. Unless the guitar's initial setup was done bad or you moved the guitar to an area with a different climate, there is little reason to adjust the truss rod.

A good number of my guitars have only had a single truss rod adjustment in the time that I've had them. Heck, some of the earlier electric (and still quite a lot of the newer classical) guitars didn't come with truss rods.

I agree with the others, the initial issue was most likely with the bridge or nut height, but now since you fiddled around with it, I guess you have to do some truss rod work.

the problem occured overnight, i didn't touch the bridge or anything, suddenly the action was a lot higher than it should've been so i figured the neck shifted due to humidity or temperature changes or something.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

Wait. In your original post, you said that the action was way too HIGH and it was still fretting out when you did bends on the higher frets. Those two things are contradictory. Higher action should mean LESS fretting out, so something is not right here. When you say "higher frets" do you mean fret number 1, 2, 3 like "higher toward the neck" or do you mean "higher notes" like fret 18, 20, 22?
Also, do you have any tools that you can use to check the actual state of the neck relief or string height? (a capo, small precise ruler, etc)

 

[Reee]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

Wait. In your original post, you said that the action was way too HIGH and it was still fretting out when you did bends on the higher frets. Those two things are contradictory. Higher action should mean LESS fretting out, so something is not right here. When you say "higher frets" do you mean fret number 1, 2, 3 like "higher toward the neck" or do you mean "higher notes" like fret 18, 20, 22?
Also, do you have any tools that you can use to check the actual state of the neck relief or string height? (a capo, small precise ruler, etc)

higher frets as in fret 12-22.

I don't have tools to measure, and i have to take the neck off everytime i want to make adjustments, it's a real crapshoot

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

yeah, or very close to touching

Then the neck is fine
Straight enough
You may need to lower the bridge or shim the neck

 

[nexion218]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

Don't forget that you can adjust the height of the whole bridge assembly through the mounting studs. If you decide to do so, please make sure to remove the bridge before turning the studs to prevent possible damage to the knife edges/pivot points on the studs.
Also, as others have said it before: try to measure the relief by fretting the 1st fret and 17th fret/24th fret/the fret where the neck joins the body, whichever you fancy ( I usually measure using all possibilities) and than using either a feeler gauge or a playing card to measure the distance between the top of the fret and the bottom of the low E at the halfway point ( 8th fret). The measurement will show you how straight your neck is under string tension. I guess you have the Jackson style 12-16 compound radius. With my Jacksons I aim to have a 0,2 mm relief. If your neck relief is OK, then I'd try to adjust the bridge height. I try to set it up so that the action at 12th fret (distance between the top of the fret and the bottom of the string) is ~1,5 mm on bass side and ~1 mm on treble side. If you still have issues then my idea would be high frets or maybe neck angle, but I'll refrain from giving advice on those. If that is indeed your issue, there are highly knowledgable people here who will surely help you out.

 

[Reee]

Re: Need some help setting up my guitar

Don't forget that you can adjust the height of the whole bridge assembly through the mounting studs. If you decide to do so, please make sure to remove the bridge before turning the studs to prevent possible damage to the knife edges/pivot points on the studs.
Also, as others have said it before: try to measure the relief by fretting the 1st fret and 17th fret/24th fret/the fret where the neck joins the body, whichever you fancy ( I usually measure using all possibilities) and than using either a feeler gauge or a playing card to measure the distance between the top of the fret and the bottom of the low E at the halfway point ( 8th fret). The measurement will show you how straight your neck is under string tension. I guess you have the Jackson style 12-16 compound radius. With my Jacksons I aim to have a 0,2 mm relief. If your neck relief is OK, then I'd try to adjust the bridge height. I try to set it up so that the action at 12th fret (distance between the top of the fret and the bottom of the string) is ~1,5 mm on bass side and ~1 mm on treble side. If you still have issues then my idea would be high frets or maybe neck angle, but I'll refrain from giving advice on those. If that is indeed your issue, there are highly knowledgable people here who will surely help you out.

how do i measure the 0.2mm relief with a playing card? (is a playing card 0.2mm? sorry for the dumb question)