New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

[The Tone Ranger]

It's got a basswood body, maple neck, bound rosewood board, 24 frets, H-S-H config, and the Edge Zero trem. I took out the stock IBZ/Dimarzio neck and bridge pups.

The first replacement was a custom set by Guitarforce. I got an A5 Full-On Distortion for the bridge and a A3 Rebel 2 PAF for the neck. I was less than impressed.

I replaced those with a Dimarzio Mo'Jo in the bridge and a PAF Joe for the neck. These are pretty cool, but I steel felt like I'm left wanting.

Here's my dilemma: I can't afford more guitars right now. This is my main axe. I need versatility. I play guitar in my church praise and worship band. However, I'm also a metalhead. My current pups are good for church, but when I get home and want to headbang...they're just not cutting it.

I've always been a SD fan. The JB is one of my favorites...so is the Distortion. However, I also love EMGs...and now the Blackouts. The thing that's kept me from going active is that I'd also have to buy a middle single coil Blackout and then get a 3-way switch vs. the 5 I currently have. Then it wouldn't be that easy to replace the battery, etc. I also don't know if Blackouts would fit in a church setting. I would definitely get 2 AHB-1 NECK pups for both positions.

The reason I went with the Dimarzios was b/c I CRAVE harmonics. I figured those would have cool harmonics and were made to sound good in basswood. They are good, but just don't have that Seymour tone that I love. Think Dio, Quiet Riot, Dokken, Lynch Mob, Ratt, Scorpions, Ozzy...that's kinda the tone I'm going for. I haven't heard a passive yet that can get the pinch harmonics like an active EMG or Blackout can get. I also love bluesy tones from the neck. I considered the BL XL-500L for the bridge, but think that might annoy me after awhile...not sure. I've heard some sound clips of the Dimebucker in an RG and it did sound good, just wonder if it would be too over the top when switching to it in church.

So I think for versatility and $$ and hassle, I should stay passive. So what set would you recommend that can handle church praise and worship tunes, bluesy stuff, and the brutalz? I'm leaning towards the Hot Rodded Humbucker set of the Jazz/JB combo. That would be cheaper since it comes in a set (vs. getting say a '59 in the neck...do they sound that different?) and would give me the versatility. Would the JB give me those killer pinch harmonics?

I've seen others recommend the Full Shred for Basswood and the "pickup picker" says the Distortion, but I don't see why a JB wouldn't sound great. I mean, it sounds great in maple (Jerry Cantrell), alder (Warren Demartini), and mahogany...so why not basswood?

I probably should have just made this post "which pickups are most like the Peavey HP Special CT USA pickups?" I think if you check out that GuitarWorld video review of that guitar...that's what I'm after. That guitar is basswood with maple top and maple neck/fretboard.

I'll have to save the active's for another guitar in the future.

Sorry for the book! So whadya say? Help please!

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

well thats what I did
<<<<<< shes right there
heres a link to the thread with photos and sound clips at the end
if you are interested

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=174470

I currently am searching for the proper set to got into the one in my signature line

it too is a HSH

both have basswood bodies

I like the Jazz/JB in my RG2
try Wymore guitars
he swapped the standard spaced SH-4 with a TB-4
in the set

oh yea
the JB is rock and roll in a Basswood body

 

[Despair]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

If you are sure the problem is with your pickups rather than your amp or speakers, there are tons of good options. You might consider starting with the bridge pickup, and then see if one of your DiMarzios does what you want as a neck pickup opposite it.

JB tends to honk in basswood, and be rather loose. Definitely not the best match for the wood, though it still kills for pure lead playing. I've had 1 in my RG570 for 13 years, and while it's an immense improvement over the stock V2 pickup, it's not a good match for the wood. In the right guitar they are awesome, but the majority can't stand it in basswood. (I'm planning to try my JB in the neck, though. At least I'll get rid of the stock pickup...)

If you are worried about being too harsh for worship, I'd steer clear of the Dimebucker. L-500XL is the pickup it's based on, and the Bill & Becky current version is a bit sweeter sounding due to the use of A5 magnet.

DiMarzios that use their Dual Resonance construction are generally considered to be friendlier to basswood. I'm not a fan of the company's business practices, but a bridge D Sonic & Air Norton might suit.

In Duncans, I'd tend to look at a Parallel Axis bridge pickup if you want harmonics. They're designed to fatten up a whammy-equipped guitar and improve sustain & harmonics. I'm planning to use the PATB-2 Parallel Axis Distortion myself. Do a search for Daemonbarbecue's clips, those are what convinced me I need to try it. They seem to minimize the ugly harshness of ceramic magnets, without giving up the awesome attack. For something bluesier, the PATB-3 Blues Saraceno is a killer, it's sort of a slightly hotter '59 that's more friendly to basswood/whammy bars. And yes, more harmonics due to polepiece structure. PATB-2 or a TB-6 Distortion would cover most of the range of bands you mention, only falling down on Ratt.

As far as the neck, the '59 definitely sounds different from the Jazz. More growl, more complex tone. But may be too fat, depending on what you use the neck pickup for, and your amp. There's a lot of other options, though.

There's a lot of questions left about your signal chain and what you use each position for. You might aim for over the top from the bridge, and leads and looser riffs from the neck, with the middle 3 positions for cleans. Or neck for cleans, and aim for a flexible bridge pickup. Matter of taste.

A lot of metal players favor a lot of drive from the bridge pickup, to get the attack and tone they want. Others find a lower output pickup and a boost pedal or even just a higher gain setting at the preamp works for them.

 

[Despair]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

Oh, forgot to mention some other options popular for users of hot bridge pickups:
Screamin' Demon or PATB-3 in neck. Screamin' Demon in the neck has plenty of growl, and a lot of bite without harshness, and due to screw poles in both coils, tends to be pretty tight as well.

Full Shred in the neck tends to be liked in basswood, as well.

 

[Petrovsk Mizinski]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

well thats what I did
<<<<<< shes right there
heres a link to the thread with photos and sound clips at the end
if you are interested

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=174470

I currently am searching for the proper set to got into the one in my signature line

it too is a HSH

both have basswood bodies

I like the Jazz/JB in my RG2
try Wymore guitars
he swapped the standard spaced SH-4 with a TB-4
in the set

oh yea
the JB is rock and roll in a Basswood body

You're a rare breed, because almost everyone I've ever spoken to HATES the JB in basswood:laugh2:

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

to each his own

 

[greg232]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

I would recommend the PAF 36th anniv for neck, and the Steve's Special in bridge. I have this combo in my RG2570 and it sounds fantastic.

 

[dominus]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

Probably just need a little more output in the bridge. The PAF Joe should be fine in the neck. I'd go with an EVO 2 or D-Sonic in the bridge. I can get a good metal tone out of the Mo' Joe and even the Air Norton in the bridge, but when it comes to the "brutals", the EVO 2 and D-Sonic are what I turn to in the same bodied guitars.

 

[The Tone Ranger]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

Thanks for all your replies. I thought about a Steve's Special, but not in love with the tone. Chords are nice, but not too fond of the lead tone. In fact, there's something about Dimarzios in general (tonewise) that I just don't care for. I just really dig the tone from Duncans.

My current "rig" is a Line 6 POD XT Live. It has great flexibility/versatility and is easy to carry to church and plug into the soundboard through a direct box. However, I'm finding that I'm not using a lot of the effects and amps that come in it. I even did the upgrade and got the Metal and Boutique amp packs. So this thing is loaded. I also thought it would be easy to record with - USB to the computer. Like I said though...it's almost overkill. I don't end up using most of the stuff in there. I'm finding that I like the Hiwatt clean w/some chorus and delay and for Distortion I like using a Marshall - plexi for church (the STP Plush setting) and a JCM 800 or 900 for metal. The Mesa Dual Recto setting is ok, but I don't think it really does the real thing justice.

I've thought of getting something like a Blackstar 5-watt head and 1x12 cab or the Marshall Haze or the Peavey Mini-Colossal, but that should be a separate post. I gotta find one on the cheap. I'm not sure how much these things cost. I dare say I even like the sound of the new Marshall MG. I really think those mini stacks look cool too. I mean, cmon...I small Marshall stack just looks cool. I wonder about using at church or ability to record - can it connect to the soundboard or computer or would I have to mic? That would just be more hassle for the amount of playing I get to do these days.

I don't see a lot of players using the PATBs. I wonder why this is? What makes these different from the regular TBs? I do have a conundrum...going low/med output and use more gain or stomp for metal or go with a higher output pup...hmm? I do seem to like A5 mags more than ceramic, but the TB-6 does sound killer. Then again, so does Mark Morton's Jackson Dominion, which has dual '59s. And the EVH/'78 sounds killer too, but wonder if an A2 mag would be too muddy in my guitar (basswood). The PATBs and 78 are considerably more expensive too.

What about that Guitar World video review of the Peavey HP Special CT USA? Which pups would most compare to those? The bridge is around 13-14K and A5 mag I believe. The neck is also A5 supposedly, but the output seemed to be higher than the bridge and I didn't get that. Does anyone know the specs of those pups or which SD's would most compare to those? Cuz that guitar sounds killer and gets great harmonics.

Thanks.

 

[Despair]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

The Peavey isn't really comparable to an all-basswood Ibanez, a thick maple top makes things a lot tighter and brighter, where basswood tends to have loose, muffled bass & treble. (But lots of upper mids, which is why the JB tends to honk so badly).

It's difficult to be sure going by one video, but it wouldn't surprise me if Peavey's using the dual resonance trick (AFAIK the patent expired a few years back...) or at least unbalanced coils. There's a bit of the every note has different tone thing going on, which is a notable feature of DiMarzio's hotter dual resonance pickups and part of what makes harmonics pop on them.

They seem fairly similar to the EB/MM EVH which has a half-aired Tone Zone bridge and a half-aired Norton neck. If you are comfortable with modding your pickups, I'd get a Tone Zone & Norton & do the partial air mod myself, if not, I'd probably go with a Tone Zone bridge (don't have the maple's high end) and an Air Zone neck.

A5 in bridge with hot symmetrical coils and conventional construction tends towards boomy or loose in basswood, which is likely why there are relatively few all-basswood shredders that use Duncans, since that covers most of their better known humbuckers.

About the Parallel Axis pickups, they are partly not popular because they're believed to ONLY work with dual locking vibrato systems. Also, the majority of guitarists are extremely reactionary, and wont touch anything that doesn't look enough like a pickup from a 50 year old guitar. Even if the difference can't be seen from more than 6' away...

As for what they do, they were developed to thicken up floating whammy guitars, without being loose or giving up harmonics and to improve sustain. They have hotter coils, but actually have more harmonics because of the polepiece structure, which surrounds the string with fields from both sides. The E strings are more balanced with the other strings because the magnetic field is more similar to the center strings, where a conventional design has the magnetic field fade out towards the edge of the pickup more. Not having the field focused directly at the string, but surrounding it brom both sides means less drag on the string, so slightly better sustain, and less risk of the string crashing & sticking to the polepieces during deep whammy dives.

The PATB-3 Blues Saraceno has a reputation for making a superstrat sound like a Les Paul. Much thicker than a conventional humbucker in the same body.

I've generally found ceramic pickups too harsh, but everything I've heard of the PATB-2 seems to give the things I like about ceramic pickups for rhythm, without the harshness that makes me avoid them for everything else. Sure, you can mess with a graphic or parametric equalizer to cut the offending frequencies, but better not to need to, especially if you don't have one...

Another pickup you might find interesting is the Alternative 8. A lot of people feel it's about midway between the Distortion, JB & Custom, without the weaknesses (or all of the strengths) of any of them. Some people find it has an odd midrange attack that seems to go with the AlNiCo 8 magnet. But to be able to do rhythms almost as well as the distortion, leads almost as well as the JB or Custom... And it seems less picky about body wood than the JB or the alnico Custom variations. Only problem is that while it's hot and friendly to harmonics, they don't sing out like on a JB or Distortion, have a different tone.

But given most of the bands you mention have used ceramic pickups similar to the Distortion (or the DiMarzio Super Distortion, which is supposed to most closely resemble the Distortion out of Seymour Duncan's lineup, or the Dirty Fingers, a hot Gibson ceramic that's a bit bassier & harsher)... Exception being Ratt & Lynch Mob, which are JB (de Martini is known for using an overwound A2 JB variation) and later Lynch Mob is Screamin' Demon.

I should mention my favorite tone from Vivian Campbell of Dio is his solo "Sixgunz" where he was using Full Shred pickups into a Soldano...

Given your tastes in metal, I think a TB-6 or PATB-2 in the bridge might suit best. Use the neck pickup to cover more classic rock/blues tones, and on higher gain, singing leads. Also, if you are interested in thrash rhythms, those are amazing pickups. A lot of early gallops were done on hot ceramic pickups, before EMGs became the overwhelming first choice for speed metal.

Hope all this helps. Picking out the perfect pickups to nail both a particular sound and be flexible for other uses is very difficult. Especially starting from a wood that tends to rule out many options for most players' tastes.

 

[Despair]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

Yet another option for those who care more about function than adherence to vintage aesthetics are the P-Rails series. In series the bridge is said to be similar to a Tone Zone. Parallel they are supposed to sound a lot like a PAF rather than the typical parallel humbucker's cold single coil/weak minihumbuckerish tone.

Combine the P-Rails with Triple Shot pickup rings (with series/parallel/P-90/Rail switching) and that'd make for an insanely flexible guitar.

There's also the recently announced Hot P-Rails for the bridge.

In a 24-fret guitar, I'd install the P-Rails neck with the rail toward the neck to make the single coil tone more usable. (Otherwise it's too close to the middle pickup position.)

 

[dominus]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

The Mesa Dual Recto setting is ok, but I don't think it really does the real thing justice.


Thanks.

Look online for settings for the Dual Rectifier, they're really reactive to the settings on the EQ/Presence knobs, and Line 6 modeled that. On the original POD, the Dual Rectifier was what I originally went for, but on the later ones, I found out that my old settings sounded horrid, and switched to the Spinal Puppet model. Turns out you really need to balance the EQ settings more on that one, but you can get a great sound out of it. Try here for some good starting points:

http://www.grailtone.com/tone-settings/mesa-boogie/view-recto-settings.html

 

[The Tone Ranger]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

Some great stuff there...thanks. That's a lot to think about! I never really thought about the P-Rails. I know Ty Tabor from Kings X now uses them. So I'm leaning towards a PATB - probably 1 or 3. I think the Distortion might be too over the top. I should listen to some p-rails clips. Do you get that typical seymour tone?

I'll tell you what...I just watched the Guitar World review of the Mark Morton Jackson Dominion guitar. That comes with '59s and wow...that is just killer tone! I mean, especially when he starts ripping with some distortion...he hits some open chords that just have this raw tone that makes my hair stand on end. I mean...59's and that tone is just killer. That is one flexible/versatile guitar. When I can afford another guitar that is hard tail...that will be it. That is the sound when I think of Duncans.

So should I consider a TB-1b or a PATB1 or the P-Rails? What's the difference b/t the PATB 1 and 3? What would I get for the neck?

Thanks. You guys are helping me out a lot. Man, I can't get over how killer that Dominion sounds in that video. Is there any way to get that kind of tone and versatility out of my guitar?

 

[Despair]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

PATB-3 is basically the parallel axis version of the '59. Should work on a basswood plus licensed floyd setup.

The parallel mode of the P-Rails is supposed to be a pretty similar sound as well, though less thick. Depends on whether you want to deal with the extra switching. Majority of guitarists prefer simpler setups, easier access to a smaller range of sounds.

You could also mix & match. I'm not that familiar with the PATB-1, but it might fall more towards the hot A5 sound without the downsides of that approach for your guitar.

The Mark Morton is again very different construction (neck through body, short-scale, fixed bridge) & materials (all mahogony aside from ebony fretboard & quilted maple cap). I'd look hard at the PATB-3 to pull that kind of tone out of a long scale basswood floyd, especially in the bridge.

The P-Rails are the ultimate in flexibility, though...

 

[phred]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

I read that you really want SD's, but have you thought of PAF Pro/Fred combo? Satriani's JS1000 is all Basswood and the PAF Pro sounds great split.


Scott

 

[Marshall_Abuser]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

If you're so set on the '59s....just block the trem, get a '59 set and be done with it.
It WILL be versatile, no doubt about it.

 

[Despair]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

Another thing that might help is describing what you don't like about your current pickups. You may just prefer the more focused sound of symmetrical coils, in which case the Dual Resonance DiMarzios just wont be your thing. But then there's the Peavey, which sounds an awful lot like one of those...

Seems like you want very different tones from your guitar, all at once. Also note that the GW videos have the amp doing a lot of the work.

You might be able to get where you want by tinkering with pickup height & adjusting the screw polepieces. Especially in the neck, where the PAF Joe doesn't appear to use Dual Resonance, it's a slightly hotter wound pickup somewhere between a PAF Pro and a '59 in tone. So probably a bit brighter and more upper midrange than a '59, but a bit less bass/growl.

If it's too thin, particularly only under high strings, you can try raising the pickup a bit closer & lowering the screw polepieces. A lot of people neglect the ability to vary the pickup's tone across the strings like that... Or maybe you are way ahead and have already tried everything.

 

[Despair]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

Something else to note: the neck pickup of a 24 fret guitar will never sound quite like the neck pickup in a 22 fret guitar.

For getting the sound of a Les Paul out of a basswood bolt-on long scale guitar, the PATB-3 is a sadly overlooked pickup. '59s in a basswood shredder will never sound quite like they do in a Les Pauloid.

To further confuse things, according to https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?p=1553425 the PATB-1/PATB-1n set is apparently compared to a JB/Jazz set, but thicker & sweeter, and friendlier to basswood. I don't think it has the upper midrange of a JB, so I don't know how precise that comparison is.

 

[SFW]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

I'd say that the Distortion of JB would work just fine in your guitar. For the neck, I'd go with a 59.

 

[The Tone Ranger]

Re: New pups for Ibz RG 2550 Prestige

Thanks. You all have given me some great advice...and a lot to think about. I never knew basswood would be that finicky! I figured...Satch, Gilbert, EVH, et al...these guys can have any tonewoods they want and they chose basswood.

Maybe I should listen to my current setup (MoJoe/PAF Joe) through a tube amp before I decide to switch. Otherwise, I'm going to give the PATB-3/PATB-1 a serious look...as well as the Full Shred.

Thanks again!