New Retribution set wired in, but don't quite sound right...

Despised

Despised

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So I got a set of the new Dino Cazares Retribution pickups, and got them wired up in my guitar. But there is something not quite right with the sound/tonality...

I had pulled out an EMG 707TW & 707TW-R set, and used the EMG solderless system with the EMG'S with now issue. So I had replaced the push/pull pots from the 707TW's and replaced them with regular 25K ohm solder less volume pots, and had kept the same tone pot, 3-way switch, jack, and switch buss. And now that the Retribution are in, it sounds so like the tone pot is turned down, but it's all the way up...

Is there something I am missing? Is there a difference in the value of tone pots between the EMG and Blackouts pots and caps??? Can anyone help me out with this and let me know what I am missing? Thanks in advance.
 
Re: New Retribution set wired in, but don't quite sound right...

The differences between EMG and SD 9v pickup harnesses that spring to mind are;
1) Each brand is often phased in reverse with respect to the other.
2) Different cap values on the tone control.
3) Some EMG tone control devices require a +9v power supply.
4) SD 9v active pickups tend not to take kindly to being fed +18v.

Specific to EMG tone controls, pay close attention to the orientation of the block connectors. On the EMG VLPF Tone control, the pins are (L-R) Input, Input Ground, Output Ground, Output, +9v. Hence, the colour codes of the conductor wires of the Solderless block connectors should appear white, black, black, white, red.

Finally, the EMG VLPF does not care to have much heat applied to its PCB. Even soldering a ground wire to the VLPF pot chassis could be enough to burn out an IC chip.
 
Re: New Retribution set wired in, but don't quite sound right...

Funkfingers said:
The differences between EMG and SD 9v pickup harnesses that spring to mind are;
1) Each brand is often phased in reverse with respect to the other.
2) Different cap values on the tone control.
3) Some EMG tone control devices require a +9v power supply.
4) SD 9v active pickups tend not to take kindly to being fed +18v.

Specific to EMG tone controls, pay close attention to the orientation of the block connectors. On the EMG VLPF Tone control, the pins are (L-R) Input, Input Ground, Output Ground, Output, +9v. Hence, the colour codes of the conductor wires of the Solderless block connectors should appear white, black, black, white, red.

Finally, the EMG VLPF does not care to have much heat applied to its PCB. Even soldering a ground wire to the VLPF pot chassis could be enough to burn out an IC chip.
Click to expand...

I am very familiar with EMG's components and systems, and have made a lot of custom-made solderless parts from older hard-wired parts for systems on my guitars in recent years. I actually am using an A25KX2 Concentric pot that I custom made for use with the solderless system, as well as a Shadow KillPot that I made for use with the solderless system.

And on ALL of EMG's active tone controls and accessories, the connections are actually:
White/Black/Black/Green/Red, which is Input/Ground/Ground/Output/Voltage
On these accessories, you have to flip the (normal 2-wire) connector wire so that the signal wire and ground are reversed. But if you are using the harness that comes with the accessory new, then it is a 5-wire harness in the wire order I described above.

Now on to the subject matter of the thread, you just told me the key thing I needed to know regarding the tone pots and the capacitor values being different. That explains why the tone is off on these pickups, and how it seems like I am playing thru a slightly cocked wah pedal. I would like others -including someone from Duncan to confirm this, before I go and start making my own solderless tone pot specifically for use with the S.D./Blackouts components.

Thanks man! The prime example of why I love this board!!!
 
Re: New Retribution set wired in, but don't quite sound right...

The website product description of the DCR models states that active pickups require a different capacitor value compared to passive types.

Olden EMG treble roll off controls used green disc caps. Recent SD pickups are supplied with red blocky-looking caps of a different value. (My LTD EC-401w got a lot more musical when I replaced the stock EMG green cap with a Duncan red one. It didn't matter which brand of pickup was installed.)

If you have enough spare EMG Solderless two conductor cables, why not try bypassing the tone pot altogether? Test how the new pickups sound in the raw.
 
Re: New Retribution set wired in, but don't quite sound right...

I will, and that was my initial thought regarding it as well was to bypass the tone. My question there is this: I should be able to go from the output of the switch buss strait to the jack right? In EMG's diagrams, it shows the signal going out from the switch buss in to the tone, then out from the tone to the jack. Got.plenty of extra cable and parts to play with, as well as got plenty of extra wires and parts to experiment with
 
Re: New Retribution set wired in, but don't quite sound right...

So I took the pick guard back off the V, and fixed the wiring to bypass the tone pot. After spending about an hour playing them, I think I found dead my new favorite pickups! Tonality similar to the 707/707TW, but with a much sharper high end that cuts thru nicely. And with an output that is not obnoxiously hot as the standard AHB-1 Blackouts, that was the major win for me, combined with the tighter, focused tonality of them. I think now I need to get at least one more bridge model for my Kamikaze (being paired with an EMG SA-7 in the neck...), and that may be the win for those two.

But now I have an ESP LTD EC407 that I am thinking about selling to help fund another '67 Flying V 7-string build... I like the Eclipse, but the width of the neck is starting to kill my hand while I play it ( yes, the nut width on the V is slightly smaller, 45mm compared to the standard 48mm...). Plus, the V is just more comfortable and enjoyable to play, to me anyway... And since I am going for as much tonal diversity as I can get, I am going a step beyond the 707TW's for the next V, and experimenting with the new Fishman Fluence pickups (two different voicings, individual coil splits & gain reduction...), should be interesting to say the least!
 
Re: New Retribution set wired in, but don't quite sound right...

I am glad to learn that the issue was the tone control rather than anything to do with the fundamental characteristics of the pickups.

In recent months, it has been my habit to exploit the EMG B157 Pickup Buss Board so as to integrate Solderless and traditional, hard-wired pickups and controls into the same instrument. By this method, it is possible to have interchangeable tone control accessories as required. Either the EMG Solderless devices or a soldered-in SD tone pot and cap. It brings the freedom to experiment.
 
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