Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

T

timhatimay

New member
Hi Everyone,

I've been reading on the forums the past few days, and doing some online research in trying to determine the right PU for me. I've used the search on here to find some facts and opinions about the ones I'm interested in, but still can't decide!

The pickups will be going into a Squier super-sonic. Its a HH with basswood body, maple bolt-on neck, rosewood fretboard, and strat style tremolo. Also, the bridge PU is slanted, but in the opposite direction of a typical fender. This is my favorite of my guitars to play, but the sound could use some tweaking (they are Korean made 'Duncan Designed' pickups).

I play a variety of music, from metal, blues, classic rock, jazz, acoustic-ish, and just about anything there is. For this reason, I'm set on a P-rail with a modified triple shot for the neck. I really love the reviews I've read and the versatility it offers. This will be for my more punchy tones, and mid-low sound, and I think with some tweaking will be great for most of my sounds, except maybe the heavier rock/metal. The SC might be good for some riffing and strat type sounds as well.

So my dilema is despite being a non-traditional combination, I would really like to put a hot Humbucker in the bridge. I may not combine it with the P-rail often while playing, and will likely seperate them for the type of music I'm playing at the moment. It could make a unique sound when paired however! I really want some good clarity/articulation. Something that I can here stacatto notes and each note of a chord. This would be especially important in the mid to high mid range. I would also like some clear articulate lows, but I don't need a ton of lows. I rarely do drop tunings, so this is not that important. It doesn't need to be super high-output, as I don't need to overdrive the amp (use Peavey Transfex = Solid State with effects).

I'm really on the fence with the Full Shred, the Distortion, the Classic, and even the Screaming Demon (in this order), but I'm open to other suggestions your experts may have. I tried searching, but haven't seen anyone using a similar setup. Its my first post (and its a rough one I'm sure), but I've really been enjoying reading the forum, and look forward to any input you might have.

Thanks!

Tim
 
Re: Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

Full Shred bridge is almost certainly what you want, given the multiple definitions of articulation desired.

Reverse slant should make the high strings sound sweeter, I wish strat makers would standardly do that for single coil bridge pickups...
 
Re: Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

Thanks for the reply Despair! I keep coming back to the Full Shred, mainly because of its claims of clarity. I've seen some mixed feelings about it as well however. Does the custom have similar clarity in the midrange and treble? It seems like its crunchier and punchier with the lows, which may be nice, but not entirely necessary.

Does anyone have experience using a sh-5 for heavier metal (e.g. black dahlia murder, lamb of god, dying fetus, emperor etc.) or even some thrash/classic (e.g. slayer, older metallica, iron maiden, judas priest)? I'm curious as well to see how this pickup handles these type of music or similar. From reviews it seems like the lows are a little punchier with the custom than a DD or FS, but does the custom match the FS with the treble response (or how close)? The custom may be a better match for the moderate output p-rail in the neck as well, even though I don't currently plan to use them together on a regular basis. Has anyone used a hot bridge with a p-rail neck?

I said initially that strong lows weren't the priority, although does the Full Shred have the ability to provide a good palm mute chug or crunch when needed? Perhaps I'm just firming the feeling that I should be with the Full Shred!

Thanks again for help!

Tim
 
Re: Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

Articulation and percissiveness (for staccato notes) make me think of the Demon. It's not super hot, and has a tight, even bass response, but it is VERY articulate and has some of the best chunk and chug I've heard from any humbucker.

It and the standard, SH-5 , ceramic mag'd Custom are my faves fordo-it-all production pickups.

If you don't mind spending a bit more, an El Diablo from the Custom Shop would do what you want as well.
 
Re: Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

Or a pickup from the PATB range. Apparently they have great clarity too
 
Re: Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

Thanks for the input everyone. I didn't mention it before, but I don't really want an active PU.

It looks like the El Diablo is very high output, but the resonant peak is low. With an A2 magnet I would think its a little bit warmer and more "loose"...is this the case? I haven't heard much about this pu, how does it sound? I like how you describe the Demon, will it be good with a heavy distortion with some very aggressive styles? How would you rate the low/middle/treble of the Demon?

Tim
 
Re: Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

The Screamin' Demon is a hair below medium output, but has a punchy biting articulate tone.

Given your descriptions, I'd stick with the Full Shred, it's extremely articulate but higher output. Much more midrange. Should balance better against the P-Rails neck in series humbucker mode.

The ceramic Custom is somewhere between Iron Maiden and Judas Priest for tone, it's treble response is different from the FS. Brighter, but a bit less articulate. The all hex screw design on the Full Shred gives it a very percussive attack. The ceramic magnet makes the Custom have fuller but articulate bass.

The Custom is more open but a bit harder sounding, while the Full Shred has a more compressed midrange punch, but with plenty of bite.

Some suspect the Full Shred is an overwound Custom with an A5 magnet and all hex screws. It's amazing how changing a few details can alter pickup behavior.
 
Re: Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

The P-Rails in humbucker mode is very hot. You'd have to settle for a P90 sound with hum, which I don't think is what you want.

Does the guitar have a trem or a hardtail?
 
Re: Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

uOpt said:
The P-Rails in humbucker mode is very hot. You'd have to settle for a P90 sound with hum, which I don't think is what you want.

Does the guitar have a trem or a hardtail?
Click to expand...


I didn't realize P-rails were so hot! I know the single coil modes will have some hum which is OK. I plan to use the p90, parallel, and series modes for more classic rock, blues, and old-school metal (sabbath and alice cooper comes to mind!). I will only be using the p-rail in the neck, and the PU in question is for the bridge PU, which will be used for more aggressive styles. Thats why I would like a hot/aggressive, articulate pu for the bridge. Maybe I misunderstood your point.

The guitar is a vintage style trem (same as fender non-american strat). If it makes any difference, I rarely use it.

Have any of you found the Full Shred to be artificial or sterile sounding? Is it as full as a custom? It sounds like the FS is the PU i should get.

Tim
 
Re: Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

+1 on the Demon. I've never tried the Full Shred though, but you won't make a mistake with the Demon.

Extremely articulate yet never stiff or sterile. Clarity for distorted chords? This is your ticket.
It can go from raunchy classic rock sounds to Slayer without a problem. Downtuned it's massive and even tighter, if that's possible.
And it has the best cleans I've ever heard in a bridge humbucker.

EQ curve? I'd say it's something like 6/5/7. As in, tight bass, tame mids (not scooped, not even close) and present highs.
It will love a basswood guitar, mine's in mahogany.

For metal it's an amazing pickup, I don't play much metal but man it's good when I do.

It should balance pretty well with the P-Rails too, since the Demon isn't very hot.
 
Re: Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

Diego said:
+1 on the Demon. I've never tried the Full Shred though, but you won't make a mistake with the Demon.

Extremely articulate yet never stiff or sterile. Clarity for distorted chords? This is your ticket.
It can go from raunchy classic rock sounds to Slayer without a problem. Downtuned it's massive and even tighter, if that's possible.
And it has the best cleans I've ever heard in a bridge humbucker.

EQ curve? I'd say it's something like 6/5/7. As in, tight bass, tame mids (not scooped, not even close) and present highs.
It will love a basswood guitar, mine's in mahogany.

For metal it's an amazing pickup, I don't play much metal but man it's good when I do.

It should balance pretty well with the P-Rails too, since the Demon isn't very hot.
Click to expand...
A medium output pickup in the bridge should balance well with a hot neck humbucker? Seems unlikely. Demon's a great pickup, but it's not what he's asking for. A fair number of players use it in the neck opposite the Full Shred bridge because the Demon isn't all that high output.

The Full Shred is known for articulation, great note definition in chords. There's a large number of guitarists using it for heavier tones. Vivian Campbell's "Sixgunz" gives a pretty good sample of it through an SLO. (Just avoid Jeff Watson's piece "Rodo Lana" which got placed as an intro on the GPM recording, despite being the antithesis of what Campbell was trying to do).

Full Shred is known for blazing chunky riffs. It's got a great pushed midrange sound, awesome for high gain. For low gain, it is less natural sounding than the Screamin' Demon, which has more hollow mids (but a great bite and growl with plenty of bass).

Some other thoughts on the P-Rails:
Check out the P-90 mode for riffs, and the parallel humbucker mode is supposed to be a pretty nice PAFlike tone. In series mode it's closer to a Tone Zone for ridiculous thick high output tone.

You might want to try it with the rail towards the neck for a more teleish SC tone (with P-Rails in the neck). The reverse is a bit more stratty.
 
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Re: Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

timhatimay said:
I didn't realize P-rails were so hot! I know the single coil modes will have some hum which is OK. I plan to use the p90, parallel, and series modes for more classic rock, blues, and old-school metal (sabbath and alice cooper comes to mind!). I will only be using the p-rail in the neck, and the PU in question is for the bridge PU, which will be used for more aggressive styles. Thats why I would like a hot/aggressive, articulate pu for the bridge. Maybe I misunderstood your point.
Click to expand...

The P-Rails in series mode (normal humbucker mode) is somewhere between a DD and an Invader. It's really not usable for classic anything. Now, the P-Rails can be put into parallel mode and sounds pretty nice there, but now it sounds like an extra-weak PAF. Good for what you normally do with notch-position Strat sounds but not so good for class anything either. I found that I used my P-Rails in either Strat single coil or P90 single coil mode most of the time and couldn't stand the hum, so I sold it.

timhatimay said:
The guitar is a vintage style trem (same as fender non-american strat). If it makes any difference, I rarely use it.
Click to expand...

A trem block lightens up the sound considerably. You generally want a pickup with some extra low mids and/or bass. An example is the Pearly Gates if you want to be in PAF territory.

timhatimay said:
Have any of you found the Full Shred to be artificial or sterile sounding? Is it as full as a custom? It sounds like the FS is the PU i should get.
Tim
Click to expand...

Pickups that have hex poles sounds more "assertive". They follow your playing more closely, are less forgiving. They don't smooth out things like PAF-style polepiece sets do.

The FS does that, but it is also pretty hot and doesn't have much treble, so it -well- shreds pretty well.

The range of things you want to do is vast, I'm not sure what to recommend. I can tell you that the DD has some nice treble, is overall pretty civilized and plays well with the trem. Not exactly a Jazz pickup but I think it offers good flexibility for a pickup that can be used to kill keyboarders. It is also pretty usable split and in parallel for strat-notch like sounds. It will always sound "cold" due to the ceramic magnet.

For all we know the P-Rails in the neck might be nice for you.
 
Re: Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

uOpt said:
The P-Rails in series mode (normal humbucker mode) is somewhere between a DD and an Invader. It's really not usable for classic anything. Now, the P-Rails can be put into parallel mode and sounds pretty nice there, but now it sounds like an extra-weak PAF. Good for what you normally do with notch-position Strat sounds but not so good for class anything either. I found that I used my P-Rails in either Strat single coil or P90 single coil mode most of the time and couldn't stand the hum, so I sold it.



A trem block lightens up the sound considerably. You generally want a pickup with some extra low mids and/or bass. An example is the Pearly Gates if you want to be in PAF territory.



Pickups that have hex poles sounds more "assertive". They follow your playing more closely, are less forgiving. They don't smooth out things like PAF-style polepiece sets do.

The FS does that, but it is also pretty hot and doesn't have much treble, so it -well- shreds pretty well.

The range of things you want to do is vast, I'm not sure what to recommend. I can tell you that the DD has some nice treble, is overall pretty civilized and plays well with the trem. Not exactly a Jazz pickup but I think it offers good flexibility for a pickup that can be used to kill keyboarders. It is also pretty usable split and in parallel for strat-notch like sounds. It will always sound "cold" due to the ceramic magnet.

For all we know the P-Rails in the neck might be nice for you.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification and information. I'm set on the P-rail in the neck, but if I find it doesn't work for me I'll have to follow suit and sell it. I realize my to-do list is quite extensive...I figured in series the P-rails would just be like a typical Humb., not necessarily a super high output, hot PU. It does seem to answer some of my range concerns however in theory. Based on your description of FS allowing you to shred, and despair's description about it. I think this is going to be the PU of choice. Worst case scenerio I'll do a swap with SD, or just sell it.

I guess I'll have to order the FS, unless someone has some serious objections based on my neds. I'll be sure to write a review of the set-up since its a somewhat odd combination. Thanks for the help everyone!

Tim
 
Re: Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

Despair said:
A medium output pickup in the bridge should balance well with a hot neck humbucker? Seems unlikely. Demon's a great pickup, but it's not what he's asking for. A fair number of players use it in the neck opposite the Full Shred bridge because the Demon isn't all that high output.
Click to expand...

Oops. I got confused, I'd forgotten the P-Rails it's actually very hot.

Nevermind that then.

Still, I had a Ibanez RG550 with a Dimarzio Breed in the bridge and a Duncan JB in the NECK... :eyecrazy:
And I made it work, a matter of adjusting pickup height.

Our friend is going the right way, anyway!
 
Re: Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

Diego said:
Oops. I got confused, I'd forgotten the P-Rails it's actually very hot.

Nevermind that then.

Still, I had a Ibanez RG550 with a Dimarzio Breed in the bridge and a Duncan JB in the NECK... :eyecrazy:
And I made it work, a matter of adjusting pickup height.

Our friend is going the right way, anyway!
Click to expand...
It's certainly possible to work with unusual configurations, especially if your tastes don't run with the masses quite so much. I've got a JB (with magnet swap to A3, studs toward neck and hex poles under bass strings) for the neck of my RG570. It's interesting, does a few unusual things really well, but it'll eventually get swapped for something else, probably a Screamin' Demon or something out of the Parallel Axis line.

If I had gone with a ceramic bridge pickup for metal rhythm, I might find a sweeter neck soloing tone really useful, though.
 
Re: Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

Pulled the trigger on the Full Shred. I picked up the p-rail locally. Triple-shots in the mail. Will let everyone know how it turns out! Thanks to everyone for their input and advice, it is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Tim
 
Re: Newbie with Pickup Selection Question

Ok, so it took me a while to make a review, and really I don't have a good one yet. I'm waiting on some parts for the guitar, and I cannot install the P-rails and triple shots until I get a new custom pickguard. This project started as a simple pickup swap, and now turned into much more! My wilkinson trem came in the mail yesterday, so I decided to wire a temp version up just to play around on. The wilkinson VSVG trem is amazing also, it has a great feel, it seems to stay in tune better, and setting the intonation is pretty nice. It seemed to make a nice improvement in sustain and tone over the stock bridge as well. I put the full shred into the bridge and left the neck PU slot blank for now, and just wired it to my volume pot. I also did some shielding work yesterday.

Its only really been two days, but the FS does sound like the website and players here described. It is super articulate! When I'm on a roll and playing well it sounds great, and every note and pick stroke is captured. You can hear each note as you hit it, and its a pretty even balance between all the strings. If you mess up (i do all the time!), you will here it! It is not overpowering in any area, which I like. I think the reversed slant pickup helps tame the high a little as well. It cuts through, and sounds great for solo and riff work. The bass is very similar. Its got a great response and clarity. You can play staccato and hear every note, and it really defines rhythm work on the low strings. However, it doesn't punch you with bass and a palm-mute power chord isn't overpowering...once again, I like this aspect. I have so far found it great with iron maiden type sound, but I think it will do lots of other music well. I've played mostly low volume so far, and the cleans aren't bad either. The articulation carries over nice to this as well, and its got a nice glassy/clear sound. The higher output does seem to drive it a little more though.

Sorry for the half-review, I'll post something better once I get the rest of the equipment installed. I decided to go with dual triple shots also, so I'll have some options with the full shred if I ever want to change it slightly. I'll probably make a new thread to document all of the changes to the guitar, so hopefully someone can get some useful info from it (by that time the honeymoon should be over). Thanks again for the advice, I'm very happy with the selection so far!

Tim
 
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