Newer UK-made Vintage 30...Interesting!
- Thread starter Masta' C
- Start date
Masta' C
New member
Another interesting vid comparing V30s that clearly took a ton of effort to produce. I haven't watched it all the way through yet (it's long), but the comments are highly positive about it:
Side Note: I just checked the V30 that came in my 1x12" cab...Date code is GG09, so July 2021. I'll have to do more research to see if that's the "old China" version or the "new China" version, LOL!
Also, here's how to date your Celestions (careful, they swap between MMYD and YDMM depending on the generation): https://celestion.com/blog/date-codes-how-old-is-my-speaker/
Side Note: I just checked the V30 that came in my 1x12" cab...Date code is GG09, so July 2021. I'll have to do more research to see if that's the "old China" version or the "new China" version, LOL!
Also, here's how to date your Celestions (careful, they swap between MMYD and YDMM depending on the generation): https://celestion.com/blog/date-codes-how-old-is-my-speaker/
misterwhizzy
Well-known member
I’ve been thinking about starting a thread to discuss guitar YouTubers, but I haven’t done it yet. There are guys like Ben Eller, who seems likable and helpful, then there’s Fricker. This guy is such a troll, and his narcissism is stomach-turning.
Masta' C
New member
I agree, he's not for everyone. I genuinely can't stand him 90% of the time. But, having an annoying personality doesn't mean he's wrong.
I just started watching the second video I posted and it seems there may be a good bit of truth to what Glenn is saying...
Masta' C
New member
I watched the longer speaker comparison video by John Browne (he tested over 50 V30 speakers!).
He does a good job of summarizing his findings around the 41-minute mark.
Basically:
He does a good job of summarizing his findings around the 41-minute mark.
Basically:
> There are slight tonal variations between all of the V30 speakers, even from the same exact year and batch. No 2 speakers were truly identical.
> Newer production models were generally more consistent among themselves. Older V30 speakers experienced greater overall variation, possibly due to use, aging, and/or less precise manufacturing compared to today.
> The most notable differences occurred at 5Khz and above. It's this range that seems to give each speaker its unique character (i.e. making one "smooth", another "harsh", etc). Most V30s sound largely identical up to this point, regardless of production year or country of origin.
> UK-made and China-made versions produced in the same era sound pretty much the same (note: this comparison was done prior to the latest UK-made offering).
> 16-ohm versions have a noticeable scoop/softening of the mids compared to the 8-ohm models.
> The very early 2000s models (i.e. pre-2004) have a unique high end roll-off between 5Khz-6Khz that the other generations don't share. However, one of his newer Made in China speakers had a very similar response to the early 2000s models and this is basically the tonal shift that Glenn Fricker has been suggesting he experienced with his newer China-made speakers.
> OEM models from Marshall, Mesa Boogie, etc. are sonically the same as the regular production V30 models for all intents and purposes
> While dust cap characteristics varied between many of the speakers, they didn't seem to be correlated with any specific sonic result.
> There remains some dispute surrounding how much (or whether) a speaker "breaks in" the way most of us assume it does
> Newer production models were generally more consistent among themselves. Older V30 speakers experienced greater overall variation, possibly due to use, aging, and/or less precise manufacturing compared to today.
> The most notable differences occurred at 5Khz and above. It's this range that seems to give each speaker its unique character (i.e. making one "smooth", another "harsh", etc). Most V30s sound largely identical up to this point, regardless of production year or country of origin.
> UK-made and China-made versions produced in the same era sound pretty much the same (note: this comparison was done prior to the latest UK-made offering).
> 16-ohm versions have a noticeable scoop/softening of the mids compared to the 8-ohm models.
> The very early 2000s models (i.e. pre-2004) have a unique high end roll-off between 5Khz-6Khz that the other generations don't share. However, one of his newer Made in China speakers had a very similar response to the early 2000s models and this is basically the tonal shift that Glenn Fricker has been suggesting he experienced with his newer China-made speakers.
> OEM models from Marshall, Mesa Boogie, etc. are sonically the same as the regular production V30 models for all intents and purposes
> While dust cap characteristics varied between many of the speakers, they didn't seem to be correlated with any specific sonic result.
> There remains some dispute surrounding how much (or whether) a speaker "breaks in" the way most of us assume it does
Masta' C
New member
Ok, so...I traveled down this rabbit hole just a little bit more!
John Browne actually has a follow-up video to his big speaker comparison I posted above, where he bought additional examples of the 2021-22 Made in China speakers to compare and his conclusion was that there is indeed a batch of cones that were used in the production of some late-2021/early-2022 speakers that appears to give them a similar, smoother tonality that is comparable to the early-2000s models.
He also posted a video more recently where he tests the latest Made-in-UK version of the V30 and confirms that these newest ones do, in fact, sound like the early 2000s versions, pretty much supporting what crazy ol' Glenn Frick is suggesting in the very first video I posted.
So, there you have it...the 5Khz+ range is where V30 speakers vary the most and the 2000-2003 models, some 2021-22 models, along with the newest UK-made models appear to be the smoothest and most balanced sounding of them all.
John Browne actually has a follow-up video to his big speaker comparison I posted above, where he bought additional examples of the 2021-22 Made in China speakers to compare and his conclusion was that there is indeed a batch of cones that were used in the production of some late-2021/early-2022 speakers that appears to give them a similar, smoother tonality that is comparable to the early-2000s models.
He also posted a video more recently where he tests the latest Made-in-UK version of the V30 and confirms that these newest ones do, in fact, sound like the early 2000s versions, pretty much supporting what crazy ol' Glenn Frick is suggesting in the very first video I posted.
So, there you have it...the 5Khz+ range is where V30 speakers vary the most and the 2000-2003 models, some 2021-22 models, along with the newest UK-made models appear to be the smoothest and most balanced sounding of them all.
solspirit
Ultimate Post Liker
Masta' C
New member
It's funny, because this topic really has limited real-world bearing for most of us. I was just up late after the wife and kid went to bed and had some brain cells to kill, ha ha! 
John Browne was really focused on the dip of the early 2000's models in the 5Khz-6Khz range, but he kind of overlooked the fact that there was quite a bit of divergence in the 6Khz-7Khz range and even the 7Khz-8Khz range between most of the generations.
The majority of us with "newer" V30s could focus our EQ efforts on the 5Khz-8Khz range and probably get very close to the smoother "early 2000s" tone IF that's what we really wanted.
As for Glenn Fricker's assertions, he's pretty much making a big deal out of nothing, but he's not exactly "wrong"...John Browne's efforts do confirm Glenn's claims for the most part. However, it seems the difference Glenn observed in his "newer" V30 was ultimately down to the particular batch his speaker was from and not a permanent design change that all Made-in-China V30s from 2021-on benefitted from.
John Browne was really focused on the dip of the early 2000's models in the 5Khz-6Khz range, but he kind of overlooked the fact that there was quite a bit of divergence in the 6Khz-7Khz range and even the 7Khz-8Khz range between most of the generations.
The majority of us with "newer" V30s could focus our EQ efforts on the 5Khz-8Khz range and probably get very close to the smoother "early 2000s" tone IF that's what we really wanted.
As for Glenn Fricker's assertions, he's pretty much making a big deal out of nothing, but he's not exactly "wrong"...John Browne's efforts do confirm Glenn's claims for the most part. However, it seems the difference Glenn observed in his "newer" V30 was ultimately down to the particular batch his speaker was from and not a permanent design change that all Made-in-China V30s from 2021-on benefitted from.
Par for the course with this dude. My distaste for his approach makes anything he's saying pointless. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. I guess I feel about him the way some benighted people feel about Geddy Lee's vocals. Canadians, so divisive.
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
Exactly! We are going to dial in the eq to taste so it doesn't matter if the mids are slightly scooped in some models. I have a variety of speakers from multiple manufacturers. They all have different characteristics. However when I get done dialing them in, and adding a ton of gain, I always sound like me. Not saying that is a good thing.
Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
Yeah, I hear a Vintage 30 & it always sounds like a Vintage 30 to me.
All the "differences" are just a quick turn of my amp's EQ knob's away..
Maybe if I had OCD it would make a difference, but I don't, and it does'nt :laugh2:
All the "differences" are just a quick turn of my amp's EQ knob's away..
Maybe if I had OCD it would make a difference, but I don't, and it does'nt :laugh2:
80's_Metal
Underglazed Hair Metalologist
Jon frequents another forum I belong to.
Really nice guy. And I think he does a great job with his videos.
I love his video mostly because it dispels so many myths about V30s made here and V30s made there..
I've been in the speaker rabbit hole for a long time and have decided that a V30 is a V30.
All speakers manufactured have similar tonal variations from time to time.
Speakers do have a lot more to do with your overall tone than most people understand.
Really nice guy. And I think he does a great job with his videos.
I love his video mostly because it dispels so many myths about V30s made here and V30s made there..
I've been in the speaker rabbit hole for a long time and have decided that a V30 is a V30.
All speakers manufactured have similar tonal variations from time to time.
Speakers do have a lot more to do with your overall tone than most people understand.
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I think speakers being 10-20x the cost of a magnet swap makes magnet discussions more accessible.
Masta' C
New member
I think the fact that this is primarily a "pickup" forum is why other "tone"-related themes tend to do rather poorly in discussions around these parts.
Still, most of us here have, at some point, purchased a cabinet or a combo with speakers to amplify our guitars through, so these things aren't irrelevant.
misterwhizzy
Well-known member
I agree that speakers make a MUCH more impactful difference on overall tone and feel than pickups as a whole, much less just magnets in those pickups.
Artie
Peaveyologist
There's an interesting parallel here to the audiophile world. When I worked in an stereo store, people obsessed over the amp or receiver, 'cause they looked cool and had all the knobs. We tried to convince them that it started with the phono cartridge, (mechanical-to-electrical conversion), and ended with the speaker. (Electrical-to mechanical conversion.)
Same with a guitar. The pickup is the mechanical-to-electrical part, and the speaker is still the electrical-to-mechanical part. They're both important, with the electronics, in between, playing a lessor part. :wall:
Same with a guitar. The pickup is the mechanical-to-electrical part, and the speaker is still the electrical-to-mechanical part. They're both important, with the electronics, in between, playing a lessor part. :wall:
Masta' C
New member
I think the pickup would be more critical if the primary goal was simply to recreate and amplify the natural sound of the electric guitar in its most pure form. However, pretty much no one would actually enjoy that sound, LOL!
It's hard to put specific figures to things, because electric guitar signal chains are rather complex systems even in their most "simple" iterations, but I'd estimate that the "in-between" stuff (pedals, preamp, etc) makes up like 60% of the final sound, while the power amp/cab/speakers account for 35% and pickups might be around 5% of the total result, if we're being honest.
I can plug multiple guitars through my setup and there will be slight differences in character between them, I might even prefer the response and "feel" of one over another, but the final sound just isn't going to be worlds apart. However, if I swap in a different preamp, pedal, or play with the EQ settings and gain on my amp, then the difference is wild. Same with using different speakers and cabs...they have a much bigger influence on the final "tone" than the pickups by far.
Now who has to hide? Ha ha!
:wall::rocket:
It's hard to put specific figures to things, because electric guitar signal chains are rather complex systems even in their most "simple" iterations, but I'd estimate that the "in-between" stuff (pedals, preamp, etc) makes up like 60% of the final sound, while the power amp/cab/speakers account for 35% and pickups might be around 5% of the total result, if we're being honest.
I can plug multiple guitars through my setup and there will be slight differences in character between them, I might even prefer the response and "feel" of one over another, but the final sound just isn't going to be worlds apart. However, if I swap in a different preamp, pedal, or play with the EQ settings and gain on my amp, then the difference is wild. Same with using different speakers and cabs...they have a much bigger influence on the final "tone" than the pickups by far.
Now who has to hide? Ha ha!
:wall::rocket:
i think the pickup/magnet has a very important role in setting the feel, speakers are also very important and will make a big difference in the overall tone. i really believe everything makes a difference in your signal chain. maybe its 1%, maybe its 20%, but a handful of 2% things add up. find what works best for you and run with it.