No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

[MetalManiac]

How absurd. To knock iconic guitars such as the 335 and 175! These guitars literally MADE music.
Yet, there is a very very serious part of my makeup that tells me that plywood guitar is inferior.I truly believe it is, no matter what.

I do not now or ever expect anyone to understand..in fact, i expect to be called flat out nutz, juiced up, whatever.. and thats allright.

So to make this as brief as possible, I am going to try and sell my 1973 Gibson 335 body guitar.
What I want to pick up is a CES 356.

I had an offer for a *L4 already in a straight across trade , but as I am not a pure traditional Jazz player, I skipped on that .Hard to do, because *its a great guitar , of relatively equal value to mine, but maybe not quite as solid an investment in the long run.Not that I wouldn't love to have an L4 though!My view is that deal one day I want a L5/Super400, and that nothing es;e will really suffice.

Therefore, I am on the hunt for a REAL semi hollow..a carved solid Archtop. I don't know why they cannot make them in 335 size ( becasue I think body size has a lot to do with the sound) .


I want me a CES 356!

Sincerely,
your best friend,
The MetalManiac.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

While I can envision living without laminate solid bodies, I am not sure you can do the same with hollowbodies? It seems like too many solid topped acoustics end up as kindling after 20-30 years.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

^IDK;

 

[kramersteen]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

They only come in white.

 

[kramersteen]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

^IDK;

That sounds like a tin can.

 

[kramersteen]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

Now this.... sounds better.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

I guess it's too rich for my blood. Nothing I have is more than $200. Sometimes I wonder if there's something magical about expensive instruments? But I don't have great mastery of the instrument that I could justify the pricetag.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

For this kind of thing, I want the Johnny A model. The top is two-piece solid maple and the back is carved out from a single piece of mahogany - similar to Orville Gibson's original guitars at the beginning of the 20th century (http://www.earlygibson.com/).

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Archtop/Gibson-Custom/Johnny-A-Signature.aspx

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

For this kind of thing, I want the Johnny A model. The top is two-piece solid maple and the back is carved out from a single piece of mahogany - similar to Orville Gibson's original guitars at the beginning of the 20th century (http://www.earlygibson.com/).

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Archtop/Gibson-Custom/Johnny-A-Signature.aspx

Yes yes, yes, and yes! Thanks. Those are for the chosen ones!
About the only real concern I have with a Carved top, is the strength issue.Now I think playing modern metal through a Semi Hollow is stupid as heck...
...But I do like the Classic Rock and Heavy Metal where air is blowing out the F-holes with feedback at high volume ( semi controlled) and the whole guitar becomes alive and an extension of the tube amp BUT- I have been warned that too much of that air blowing out the F-holes and the guitar could literally explode! I believe it!

Of course, Plywood tops ( and I think either Carved/Solid or Ply/Laminate is the same thickness?)are stronger, and so much more able to withstand the pressure of the air pushing out of the top?

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

Now this.... sounds better.

ha!That is truly horrible.
K.Steen..you could make an awesome Semi hollow!!

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

I guess it's too rich for my blood. .

Hang around for a little while Snowdog. They will be able to 3D print those for $250.00 each soon.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

I've liked the CS 336/356 guitars I've played--right size, great feel. But, the 335 definitely has a warmer tone. The 356 is closer to a Les Paul tone. The 335 is just a terrific all-around guitar, even if it is mere plywood, lol. And the larger size works well for me.

You might also look at the chambered first version of the Les Paul Supreme. I swapped the awful 490r/498t pickups for Seth Lovers and an RS Kit. It's a much more versatile guitar, and outstanding bling too. An aftermarket lightweight aluminum tailpiece gives the guitar a little more warmth and resonance as well.

There are several guitars on the market with a build similar to the 356. Languedoc, et.al.. And perhaps the Collings I-35...sorry, can't remember the specs on this one, but it is a beautiful guitar.

But the 356 is a VERY worthy, drool-inducing goal.

Good luck!

Bill

 

[trevorus]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

Hamer Artist semi hollow. True solid top, although not the big 335 type. More of a semi hollow LP DC. Still, though, one piece mahogany back, bookmatched maple carved top. Absolutely perfect.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

...But I do like the Classic Rock and Heavy Metal where air is blowing out the F-holes with feedback at high volume ( semi controlled) and the whole guitar becomes alive and an extension of the tube amp BUT- I have been warned that too much of that air blowing out the F-holes and the guitar could literally explode! I believe it!

Of course, Plywood tops ( and I think either Carved/Solid or Ply/Laminate is the same thickness?)are stronger, and so much more able to withstand the pressure of the air pushing out of the top?

I haven't heard of that as a common problem, but it sounds like a very low risk problem with this particular guitar. The back piece, though carved, is slightly arched as well, providing a bit more air space inside, lowering the air pressure; and those cats-eye F-holes are pretty open - they aren't the dainty violin F-holes seen on most other hollows and semi-hollows.

 

[AlexR]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

The thing with those thin topped arched guitars is that it is either a waste of a lot of wood to carve them or a lot of time (and therefore $$$). Given that the 335 is incredibly expensive anyhow I'm sure anyone wanting one is glad on that score.

And I'm sure a thin solid top was tried as a bent arched top.......that fact that something like ply was adopted (which is very hard to make) makes it logical that it didn't work.

 

[MrTondo]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

... And I'm sure a thin solid top was tried as a bent arched top.......that fact that something like ply was adopted (which is very hard to make) makes it logical that it didn't work.

I'm not quite sure about that. In the end ply is cheaper, it is stronger and most importantly it can be pressed into the arched top we all like. With solid wood you will really have to carve quite a bit, or you get a very slight carve as on an acoustic. The pressing method is just not doable for a solid arched top, unless you go with a very slight arch.

That being said I guess some people share the opinion that ply sucks and also offer kits to build a arched top with a solid top: http://www.croxguitars.com/Kits/335.htm They do not look really great to me, but anyway...

 

[allbutromeo]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

Of course, Plywood tops ( and I think either Carved/Solid or Ply/Laminate is the same thickness?)are stronger, and so much more able to withstand the pressure of the air pushing out of the top?

There were two main reasons for the laminate body, 1 it did make it cheaper to make the arched bodies (hence why the first ones with this were the budget models), and 2 the laminate is stiffer than the solid wood which helped reduce feedback at higher volumes as amps got more powerful. Even with a laminate body its really hard to control feedback from a hollowbody when using any decent amount of gain and volume.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

Sadly the premise of this thread is simply lumping every type of plywood into one ugly blob. The real fact is that there as as many variations in plywood quality as there is in solid wood quality.

And that's because, like solid wood, there are many types of plywood trees, growing in many locations around the planet. There are still some old-growth plywood forests but they are diminishing quickly. And of course it's well-known that the true 'tone plywoods' come from old-growth forests, often rainforests and humid climates. Due to it's scarcity, instruments built from such plywood are more expensive, and many manufacturers build to cheaper price points by using inferior plywood.

The choice is yours.

 

[SGDLutherie]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

It makes little difference if it's solid wood or laminated. The laminated plates might be a little stiffer for their thickness as compared to a carved plate.

In the case of an ES-335 with the block it doesn't matter.

But one is not inferior to the other. Just different.

This is true of laminations in general. Glue lines do not harm the tone or stop vibrations. If they did them acoustic guitar tops would be one piece. But they never are.

Laminated guitars are more stable and make better use of the available wood.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: No More Ply Guitars for the Maniac

I know I wouldn't trade my ES-335's for a 336/356. There's a reason the dot neck ES-335 became the most popular Gibson semi hollow. The sum of it's parts and design just worked.