Nocaster DC resistance question

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slayest

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The following Tele bridge pickups are all supposed to be cloned or modelled after the original Fender Nocaster/Broadcaster:

Fender custom shop Nocaster pickup
Duncan STL-1b
Bare Knuckle Blackguard Flat '50
Don Mare The 0038's Standard

But the DC resistance of the Fender and Duncan are 7.3K and 7.6K respectively, while the other two are 10.6K and 11.5K.
So which is close to the range of the original Nocaster?
 
Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

7.5k would be a reasonable average DC resistance figure for an early Fender Broadcaster, Esquire, Telecaster or the transitional, un-named "No-caster". Production tolerances mean that neither the Fender nor the Duncan is "wrong". Vaguaries in hand-guided machine winding mean that some originals turned out hotter than others. The pickup supplied as stock on the Fender Hot Rod '52 Telecaster is nearer to 9k but still sounds like a Tele. Much hotter than that and the edge goes.

It is possible that BK and Mare employ hotter coil winds because they have elected to use weaker magnets. Hence, no amount of statistical juggling is going to show which pickup is going to sound closest to The Real Thing.

NOTE - I write as a Fender Closet Classic Nocaster owner. I have no idea how close this instrument is to a genuine piece. I just know that it plays and sounds as I would wish a Blackguard to play and sound WITHOUT costing anything like as much money.
 
Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

The originals varied from as little as 6K and went up from there.

Most Tele players want something hotter, thicker and less steely bright than stock but without losing the Tele tone. Every pickup winder is shooting for his idea of that ideal.

Seymour's version of that ideal might be the '53 JB Tapped which is an alnico 2 Tele Hot Tapped. Mine measures 6.1K and 9.6K. It's my favorite.
 
Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

Correction. Just found the box and my CS '53 JB measures 6.7K and 9.4K.
 
Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

The Flat '50 is 10.6 but it's wound with 43awg. Something to bear in mind.
 
Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

I like the JD Tele Bridge pickup. It's DC resistance is 7.8. I really like the way this pickup sounds. I can't really comment on how it compares to an original. Don't really know..... how many people have an original to compare it against!
 
Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

But the point is, these pickups (at least Fender custom shop nocaster and Bare Knuckle Blackguard Flat '50) are claimed to be CLONING the original nocaster pickup, not just copying the tone of the original.

Literally, they should be using the same types of materials, e.g. magnet and wire, and wired to approxiamtely the same DC resistence as that of the original. Though the original materials used back in the '50 may also vary, shouldn't there be a typical spec that most people agreed on? That's why I don't understand that there is such a great difference on the resistence of these pickups while they're cloning the same thing.
 
Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

slayest said:
But the point is, these pickups (at least Fender custom shop nocaster and Bare Knuckle Blackguard Flat '50) are claimed to be CLONING the original nocaster pickup, not just copying the tone of the original.
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Well they're clearly not. They're building their idea of the ideal 60 year old pickup and hoping that the public loves it.

slayest said:
Literally, they should be using the same types of materials, e.g. magnet and wire, and wired to approxiamtely the same DC resistence as that of the original. Though the original materials used back in the '50 may also vary, shouldn't there be a typical spec that most people agreed on? That's why I don't understand that there is such a great difference on the resistence of these pickups while they're cloning the same thing.
Click to expand...

Most of the public has never owned a 60 year old Tele and doesn't really know what one sounds like first hand. What they want is what they IMAGINE a 60 year old Tele to sound like - not what they really do sound like.

If a pickup winder built a bunch of 6.1K Tele lead pickups they wouldn't sell because the public wants more output than most of those early 50's Tele pickups actually had.
 
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Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

Gypsyblue said:
Most of the public has never owned a 60 year old Tele and doesn't really know what one sounds like first hand. What they want is what they IMAGINE a 60 year old Tele to sound like - not what they really do sound like.
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I bought a pre-owned Fender Nocaster because I wanted that particular version of the Telecaster sound that I had only heard in recordings made using Blackguard Fender guitars. I was not disappointed.
 
Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

Funkfingers said:
I bought a pre-owned Fender Nocaster because I wanted that particular version of the Telecaster sound that I had only heard in recordings made using Blackguard Fender guitars. I was not disappointed.
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Those are excellent pickups. I've had two sets of them. But like you say, they are a "particular version of the Telecaster sound".

I've found the "particular version of the Telecaster sound" that I carry in my own head by using the right size Fender amp turned up to 6, 7 or 8 and Seymour's alnico 2 Tele pickups, especially the custom shop versions of the Hot for Tele Tapped (A2 instead of A5) and the CS Jerry Donahue.

The CS '53 JB Tele pickup has a 6.1K tap and full output is 9.6K. I think that's perfect.

The 6.1K tap is really right in the zone of where a lot of Tele pickups were wound way back when. Just like the Fender lap steel pickups they're based on.
 
Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

Here's a picture of my old Vibrolux and Tele. A classic pairing. But I do turn it up. When people hear Roy Buchanan they forget he's playing a Vibrolux turned way up and that's one reason the 5.9K bridge pickup in his '53 Tele was able to scream the way it did. But people don't want a 5.9K lead pickup.
IMG_2618.jpg
 
Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

slayest said:
The following Tele bridge pickups are all supposed to be cloned or modelled after the original Fender Nocaster/Broadcaster:

Fender custom shop Nocaster pickup
Duncan STL-1b
Bare Knuckle Blackguard Flat '50
Don Mare The 0038's Standard

But the DC resistance of the Fender and Duncan are 7.3K and 7.6K respectively, while the other two are 10.6K and 11.5K.
So which is close to the range of the original Nocaster?
Click to expand...

Broadcaster pickups, both neck and bridge were all wound with 43 gauge wire so keep that in mind...Some Broadcaster style pickups use 43 like real Broadcasters (VooDoo and OC Duff for example) while others use thae more "normal" 42 gauge (like SD for example).

Now, that said...you have to keep in mind as well that those old Fender pickups were all wound by hand and are all over the map...a glance at The Blackguard Book will show DC resistances in Blackguard Broadcaster, Esquire, Nocaster and Telecaster pickups ranging from 5.02 all the way to 9.12...thats a really wide range!!!

So, just in terms of the DC there is no real way to tell which is closest...

The keys to teh Broadcaster tone to me is Alnico III rod magnets and 43 gauge wire...w/o those things the tone is wrong...it might still be good but it's not the Broadcaster tone.

As for the DC...high 6 to low 7k range is "typical" but by no means "right"...I have a Broadcaster replica from Cleveland guitars and I loked for a long time for the perfect pickups...alnico III on the bridge, alnico 5 on the neck and 43 gauge wire on both, just like a Broadcaster and pretty low winds...I can't remember what they are right now but the neck is high 5k to low6k range and the bridge is around 6-6.5 I think...maybe even less but thjey don't sound liek it at all...they are not hot and compressed like all those "10k NOcaster style pickups) but they will knock you down!!!
 
Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

Funkfingers said:
7.5k would be a reasonable average DC resistance figure for an early Fender Broadcaster, Esquire, Telecaster or the transitional, un-named "No-caster". Production tolerances mean that neither the Fender nor the Duncan is "wrong". Vaguaries in hand-guided machine winding mean that some originals turned out hotter than others. The pickup supplied as stock on the Fender Hot Rod '52 Telecaster is nearer to 9k but still sounds like a Tele. Much hotter than that and the edge goes.

It is possible that BK and Mare employ hotter coil winds because they have elected to use weaker magnets. Hence, no amount of statistical juggling is going to show which pickup is going to sound closest to The Real Thing.

NOTE - I write as a Fender Closet Classic Nocaster owner. I have no idea how close this instrument is to a genuine piece. I just know that it plays and sounds as I would wish a Blackguard to play and sound WITHOUT costing anything like as much money.
Click to expand...

The DC range of a SD Broadcaster is fair but the rest is all wrong...magnets and wire type is of a much later Fender pickup...the Broadcaster is a cool pickup but it's not a real vintage correct Fender sound...
 
Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

Gypsyblue said:
The originals varied from as little as 6K and went up from there.

Most Tele players want something hotter, thicker and less steely bright than stock but without losing the Tele tone. Every pickup winder is shooting for his idea of that ideal.

Seymour's version of that ideal might be the '53 JB Tapped which is an alnico 2 Tele Hot Tapped. Mine measures 6.1K and 9.6K. It's my favorite.
Click to expand...

Great pickup but again, not a correct vintage Fender tone...
 
Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

Thanks for the info! So it seems that the re-issue from Fender custom shop seems to have the correct specs, if we leave the tone aside for a while.
 
Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

The thread didn't start out being about "correct" vintage tone. The OP asked why all the supposed Tele clone pickups have different DC resistance with some being as high as 11.5K. Many (possibly most) early 50's Tele lead pickups measure lower than what the public wants them to be - as low as 5.9K. That's what the pickup in Roy Buchanan's '53 Tele measured and no one wants to buy a 5.9K Tele lead pickup.

So pickup winders wind them hotter to give the public the high DC reading that sells and which is what the public wants to see.

I don't think the two sets of alnico 3 Nocaster pickups I've owned sounded like the early 50's Teles I've been around. The Nocasters were much brighter.

Might as well just go with what you like. I prefer alnico 2. It's warmer and rounder and that's what I remember liking about the old Teles I've played - they were bright but not so steely bright as the Nocasters. Maybe they were when they were brand new. But they're warmer, rounder and softer sounding now, 55 - 60 years later.

Seymour's alnico 2 Tapped Tele Hot may not be a pickup that existed 60 years ago. But with a 6.1K tap and a 9.6K max DC resistance it does provide sounds that cover the whole range of DC resistance people claim are found in old Tele pickups.
 
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Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

The tone of a pickup is far more involved that how much copper os onthe bobbin...

I have a CS 53 Yapped JB pickup set, been using them for years now and they are great set but it is not a vintage tone...I have never heard a stock vinatge Tele that sounds like them.

DC resistance is just one (very small) piece of the tone puzzle so it's best not to get hung up on the numbers a pickup provide wien reading the coil with a meter.

That said if the OP just wants to know the "correct" DC range as I said I looked through my copy of The Blackguard Book and the bridge pickups ran a range from as low as 5.09 to 9.12...
 
Re: Nocaster DC resistance question

the guy who invented fire said:
The Blackguard Book
Click to expand...

IMO, compulsory reading.

the guy who invented fire said:
The keys to the Broadcaster tone to me is Alnico III rod magnets and 43 gauge wire...w/o those things the tone is wrong...it might still be good but it's not the Broadcaster tone.
Click to expand...

Like I posted earlier, this is what I sought, this is what I paid for. Tone, dynamic response, that big neck and wrestling with the intonation.
 
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