'Normalize" When and how much

[Al.C]

Okay all you sound engineers I have decided to learn how to use Sonar more "professionally" (if there is such a thing).
My question is when and by how much to use the normalize function. I have tended to use it to increase the levels of individual tracks that for whatever reason end up quieter/ lower amplitude than others. I seem to recall reading somewhere that it is best to use this function very sparingly.
Comments appreciated.

 

[innerdreamrecords.co]

Re: 'Normalize" When and how much

If you can avoid it do (it brings up the noise floor too). With digital unlike analog tape you don't have to get the signal of a track right up against the red to have a good signal to noise ratio.

When mixing I start with my drums about -6 dbs this gives enough headroom to bring everything in and not peak the master fader. Once you go over in digital you get bad digital distortion. Watch the levels on your effects too.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: 'Normalize" When and how much

You can get the mix as hot as you like but the more headroom you leave (typically, -6 to -3dBu), the more freedom your mastering engineer has.

There is a reason people go to school to be mastering engineers! Good ones are like gold!!

If you are just doing dems, have a noisy environment, or some other reason, "MUST" normalise, don't use more than 6dB. I hate normalising, tho -- I say keep the dynamic range in tact and let people use the volume control on their playback device -- that's what it's there for!

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: 'Normalize" When and how much

Rarely, if ever. The only time I ever use this functions is when dealing with poorly recorded tracks that I'm mixing for other people; it's useful for situations like when someone records multiple songs but doesn't use the same level for each instrument in every (eg; bass on track one was recorded at -18db, bass on track 2 was recorded at -6db). Otherwise, I don't touch it.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: 'Normalize" When and how much

VK, there's a great free VST suite from the French company Blue Cat that will do you much better than normalising: http://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Bundle_FreewarePack/

Strap the stereo or mono gain across the track and you get tonnes of level gain without any noise or artifacts, and it keeps the dynamics intact so you can still strap your compressor of choice across the mix.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: 'Normalize" When and how much

Al.C, there are also a couple of techniques involving compressors that you can use. They take a little bit of practice, but will yield VERY loud, coherent mixes:

The first is parallel or New York compression. The other is cascading compression.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: 'Normalize" When and how much

VK, there's a great free VST suite from the French company Blue Cat that will do you much better than normalising: http://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Bundle_FreewarePack/

Strap the stereo or mono gain across the track and you get tonnes of level gain without any noise or artifacts, and it keeps the dynamics intact so you can still strap your compressor of choice across the mix.

The point of normalizing in the way I was describing it is to get all the individual tracks to a uniform level across all songs on a CD that was inconsistently recorded. In that aspect, normalizing is the going to be much quicker/easier to do than individually tweaking plugins and rendering the results.

Strapping a gain plugin onto a channel is going to do literally the exact same thing as normalizing, unless somehow those plugins have a vastly better gainstaging engine than your DAW. Considering how simple the algorithm for adding/subtracting gain to a waveform is, I'm going to say it probably doesn't.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: 'Normalize" When and how much

Strapping a gain plugin onto a channel is going to do literally the exact same thing as normalizing

Actually, it's not. Gain is gain. Normalisation is a process where the entire amplitude is increased or decreased to reach a target threshold. Gain simply increases the amplitude (along with the noise) without any correction.

 

[uOpt]

Re: 'Normalize" When and how much

I wouldn't do it before mixing things together anyway.

Every time you make a sweeping change to the whole waveform you get more qualitization.

And it's not that it gives you the lost signal/noise back unless you are doing something like feeding individual tracks into an analog mixer for the mix.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: 'Normalize" When and how much

Actually, it's not. Gain is gain. Normalisation is a process where the entire amplitude is increased or decreased to reach a target threshold. Gain simply increases the amplitude (along with the noise) without any correction.

I know what both do, and it's the same exact thing. Can you explain to me how applying a gain plugin to a region and rendering it so it's a new wave file differs from simply normalizing it to a percentage that would result in the same rms level?

They both apply/reduce gain (same exact thing as increasing/decreasing the entire amplitude) to a region, the only difference is that a gain plugin processes non-destructively.

The only difference I could see is that normalizing to 100% gives the loudest peak volume without peaking above 0db, and if it's a stereo file it checks to make sure the two waveforms combined won't reach 0db. Other than that, the two are doing the exact same thing.

 

[James Rock]

Re: 'Normalize" When and how much

I know what both do, and it's the same exact thing. Can you explain to me how applying a gain plugin to a region and rendering it so it's a new wave file differs from simply normalizing it to a percentage that would result in the same rms level?

As far as I know normalizing is much more like RMS limiting then gain in a sense that loud parts aren't changed and quiet parts are boosted unlike gain increase where everything is boosted or cut a certain amount. Plugins like brickwall limiters, multi band compressors and maximizers are much more precise and not destructive then a basic normalize function

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: 'Normalize" When and how much

As far as I know normalizing is much more like RMS limiting then gain in a sense that loud parts aren't changed and quiet parts are boosted unlike gain increase where everything is boosted or cut a certain amount. Plugins like brickwall limiters, multi band compressors and maximizers are much more precise and not destructive then a basic normalize function

Brickwall limiting chops peaks to increase the RMS level.

Multiband compressors are just compressors with different settings for selected frequency bands.

Maximizers are essentially brickwall limiters in effect.

Normalization applies a uniform increase in gain across the entire waveform, and normalizing to 100% (you can choose percentages above and below that) just guarantees that the maximum amount of gain possible will be applied before peaks hit 0db.

 

[Warheart]

Re: 'Normalize" When and how much

what if you were to highlight individual hits, such as on a tom, and add gain to make them all the same level, would you consider that normalizing? you're not raising the noise floor, just evening out the actual events.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: 'Normalize" When and how much

VK is correct about the Normalisation process.

I think that the OP was asking about the wisdom of setting all of the pieces on a single presentation (such as a CD) to the same maximum level. The answer depends entirely upon the musical content. Having a sensitive acoustic ballad banging out at the same apparent sound pressure level as a full-on Metal rocker is likely to seem incongruous. (THINK - the loud/quiet routine employed by Led Zepp, Nirvana and others.) There needs to be some dynamic variety.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: 'Normalize" When and how much

what if you were to highlight individual hits, such as on a tom, and add gain to make them all the same level, would you consider that normalizing? you're not raising the noise floor, just evening out the actual events.

Still raising the noisefloor, as you're raising everything in the waveform.

I do this for psuedo automation, though, after editing out bleed between hits.


If Funkfingers is right in his assumption on this being a mastering-type issue of finalized songs needing to be the same volume (as I think he may be after re-reading the OP), you'll want to use some sort of compression/limiting to achieve that.