NOS tubes...

jones

New member
I have a bunch of 'em, they are all now microphonic. Tone is still good, and they still have good gain. Bit of a tease really. I can use them in V2 and V3 of my JTM45 RI head, but every last one is too microphonic for V1. So now I have all Tung Sol RI in there. I get the feeling unless you got a hook up, or tons of cash, the NOS party is over. Any thoughts?
 
Re: NOS tubes...

I have a bunch of 'em, they are all now microphonic. Tone is still good, and they still have good gain. Bit of a tease really. I can use them in V2 and V3 of my JTM45 RI head, but every last one is too microphonic for V1. So now I have all Tung Sol RI in there. I get the feeling unless you got a hook up, or tons of cash, the NOS party is over. Any thoughts?

Save em for conversation peices or paperweights... ;o)
 
Re: NOS tubes...

You could try wrapping a little teflon plumbers tape around the bottle. That sometimes can reduce the microphonics a bit.
 
Re: NOS tubes...

These work pretty well, too. they're all over ebay, listed as "tube dampers".

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Re: NOS tubes...

I've had a different experience of vintage tubes. Around 2003 I started collecting enough of a stash of what I found to be the best for my amps, namely late 50s black plate RCA 12AX7s and 6V6GTs, and a few early 60s Mullard short plate ECC83s. I didn't bother buying NOS, I just bought 'good used' that still had 90% or more of their life left. Most of my work is interstate, so I've got a Fender Super Champ that is constantly flying, and it has had the same set of RCAs in it for the past 5 years. The amp was recently serviced, and the tech said the tubes were still going strong, and they certainly still sound great.

I have avoided using tube dealers because their prices are ridiculous. And as I said, I have also bought good used as opposed to NOS, thus avoiding the extra premium. eBay still has plenty of listings for the tubes I like, but I've probably got enough stashed away for all of my amps for the rest of my life. I still haven't heard a current production tube that comes close to the Golden Era stuff, so I wouldn't waste my money on them, especially with their reliability problems and ludicrously short life by comparison.

Gimme this stuff, any day...


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Cheers................................. wahwah
 
Re: NOS tubes...

I don't know, maybe it's my amp. My JTM is the only amp I have right now, and it's the first amp I ever bought NOS or good used for... If it is, that would mean my amp is eating V1 tubes for some reason. So you bought a bunch in 2003, I got a bunch in 2009, and almost all of mine became microphonic in less than six months in V1... You may have caught one of the last rides...
 
Re: NOS tubes...

tubes have varied greatly in terms of quality all along it really is a crapshoot. while i agree that some of the vintage tubes do sound better and in some cases they are more reliable this isn't true 100% of the time.
 
Re: NOS tubes...

tubes have varied greatly in terms of quality all along it really is a crapshoot. while i agree that some of the vintage tubes do sound better and in some cases they are more reliable this isn't true 100% of the time.

I've had good luck with power tubes but, 12ax7 not so much. Oh, and I have a vintage rectifier tube in there that's good. I was thinking of putting in a solid state one though.
 
Re: NOS tubes...

I don't know, maybe it's my amp. My JTM is the only amp I have right now, and it's the first amp I ever bought NOS or good used for... If it is, that would mean my amp is eating V1 tubes for some reason. So you bought a bunch in 2003, I got a bunch in 2009, and almost all of mine became microphonic in less than six months in V1... You may have caught one of the last rides...

Well, I started buying them in 2003, but I've stocked up as late as last year. What was it specifically that you got?


And as for PRSfan's comment about consistency, I totally disagree. The quality control of the RCA factory in the 1950s is unmatched by any factory currently making tubes on the planet. I've got about 20 1950s RCA blackplate 12AX7s and I could put any of them in the front end of an amp and know exactly what I'm going to get. The Blackburn Mullard factory's production in the early 60s was similar, as were the great European factories at the time. It was only after the advent of the transistor and the demise of tubes that the quality started going AWOL, prior to that, they were very, very consistent. Which could go a long way to explaining why they are still going strong and sounding better than anything being made today, 50 or 60 years after they left the factory.




Cheers.................................... wahwah
 
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Re: NOS tubes...

I've had NOS, used, and current production tubes all have the same issues and some have been great (in both vintage and current production scenarios). I've had good luck buying from places that test stuff ahead of time and give you a return/exchange option. I'm not saying that all vintage tubes behave that way (likewise not all current production tubes behave that way), as you've pointed out some examples of good ones.

it's one of those situations where it really just depends, and a lot of opinions are based on limited experience, because lets face it thousands of tubes exist. Most people simply don't try that many of them. i definitely don't claim to be an expert but realistically I think it's a crapshoot based on my own experiences and on older cats that have been playing longer than i've been alive whose opinions I do trust.
 
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Re: NOS tubes...

Individual tubes can be thrashed within an inch of their life, and so any tube can go bad, they all will eventually. But this is where an understanding of what it is that you're buying can help you avoid that situation, and get great tubes that will outlast current production stuff many times over. There also has to be an understanding of the history of the Golden Era factories, because if somebody thinks they're going to get a good vintage Mullard after the Blackburn plant closed down and the company was sold to IEC, they're kidding themselves. By that time, tubes were considered a virtually obsolete technology, and only military contracts were being fulfilled. So that literally means any Mullard made after about 1966 is going to fit into your 'crap shoot' scenario. So we don't buy that stuff. Similarly, once RCA switched over to short grey plates in their 12AX7s in 1960, the quality took its first drop, and then proceeded to nose dive into the early 70s, by which time the party was pretty much over.

Some seem to think you can just say "NOS" and it is supposed to denote some great mystical quality, but it doesn't mean a thing on its own. We have to know exactly what it is we're after. In jones' case, it may well be that his reissue amp is not going to benefit too greatly from vintage tubes, because its whole circuit would have been based around 25c Chinese or Russian tubes. Sometimes, the good stuff just doesn't make any appreciable difference. But if the circuit is relatively true to the original, and early 60's short plate Mullard should make that thing come alive. The best bargain are the many rebrands, all of which still came out of exactly the same Blackburn Mullard factory (denoted by the 'B' in the date code) You will find rebrands from that era for Eico, Fisher, Dynaco, etc. The tube collectors don't want them, because they don't say Mullard. But they are exactly the same tubes. There are still some great bargains to be had. Then it is a matter of finding the right eBay guy who gives plenty of information, has the score on the board, and is happy to communicate and refund if you're not happy. Put away half a dozen of the tubes you like, and never make the compromise with the current production dross again.




Cheers...................................... wahwah
 
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that was my point, people need to know what to buy....and oftentimes sellers are misleading when it comes to tubes. Simply saying somethnig is NOS is really irrelevant because like you pointed out after a certain point in time (and even depending on the factory that produced them) it really becomes meaningless.

There are plenty of unknowledgeable people out there that buy brand names like Mullard, etc simply because of the name. At the same time the same people buy into things because it's labelled as vintage NOS. And in many of these circumstances buying current production tubes of quality from a reputable seller is honestly no different. One can still argue that some of the better current production tubes give prized NOS tubes a run for their money but that's when you have to factor in cost, etc.

I've used both in guitar amp and pro audio (usually tube mic pres) applications.
 
Re: NOS tubes...

We'll have to agree to disagree that there are current production tubes that will give a 50s RCA black plate a run for its money, in any of the important criteria of tone, longevity or reliability. I would go as far as to say that there will never be anything that good ever made again. But then that tube will not suit every amp. The fact still remains that many modern amps won't benefit from tubes from the Golden Era, because they have been designed around Russian or Chinese tubes. In which case, its a matter of putting up with poor quality control, inferior tone, and planned obsolescence, and choosing one of the brands that have all been spat out of just a few factories. To each their own.




Cheers.......................................... wahwah
 
Re: NOS tubes...

None of the "good used" 12ax7s I've bought in the past 2 years (maybe 5 or so tubes) have had microphonics issues. I use em in combo amps that occasionally do get cranked.

The dealers I like, when they list something as "tests as new", they often check them for mircophonics. Do they charge more? Maybe a little. I don't buy preamp tubes very often and so I find it's worth it to pay up and not get a crapshoot tube.

I've had bought mircophonic el84s though, so I know what it's like to blow $50 on something and be disappointed.

Know who you're buying from, look for dealers who have good reputations or generally know and care about tubes, and look for exchange or return policies.

I've had good results with raytheons, several japanese manufactures, and GE (although I exchanged the GE because I found it to be kinda bright).

To the OP, try the silicone tube rings. They don't seem to be able to "cure" a bad tube, but they can tame the problem. I used them on the el84s I mentioned above and I could take the amp a little louder and stand a little closer before that terrible squealing kicked in.
 
Re: NOS tubes...

I upgraded the amp with a point to point kit from Metroamp, before he switched to only selling pre made amps. It has sozo vintage style caps, and some nos AB resistors in certain places. The filter caps were reduced to vintage spec as well. The amp sounds wayyyyy better with old tubes. But all mine are micrphonic. I need to learn the date codes perhaps. I have some IEC branded mullards, and some mullard shield branded tubes too. I have a few Philips branded mullards as well. I have a sylvania branded GZ34 from blackburn. I was using Phillips 6l6gc, but switched to some Chinese KT66, the frequency response is more suited to the amp, but I lose some of the sweetness of the Phillips. I didn't know about the IEC bit, just thought it was another brand, so there ya go. I also have some Sylvania US made 12AX7 that sound nice, but are microphonic...


Maybe if I just pony up for a few well tested mullards I'd be set. Microphonics are only a huge problem in in V1 with the tubes I have.
 
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