nut filing is driving me insane

[nognow]

I have ruined like 7-8 nut blanks because of the same problem:
the nut slots are too small for the strings and I end up filling too much...
I literally have to push the strings in order for it to go all the way down
is it a problem with the files or with my technique?
I am using Hiroshima Uo-Chikyu files (which are supposed to be high-quality Japanese made files)...

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

Don't get too discouraged. I have brought my guitars to many trained and experienced techs and not one has ever filed the nuts perfectly. I get string binding on a few strings on almost all of them. Time to buy some nut lube I guess.

As far as the files go, not sure what's going on unless they are not the right size for the strings you are using.

 

[trevorus]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

If your slots are so deep the strings get caught, the nut is to tall. You can also use a file of the right size at a slight angle to give a little more room, but don't go overboard. You have to have a good U shaped slot that fits the string, just.

 

[nognow]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

Don't get too discouraged. I have brought my guitars to many trained and experienced techs and not one has ever filed the nuts perfectly. I get string binding on a few strings on almost all of them. Time to buy some nut lube I guess.

As far as the files go, not sure what's going on unless they are not the right size for the strings you are using.

the file gauges match the string gauges...

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

If the bottom of the groove is square, the string will bind, and if you do not make slight falloff at the end of the groove, it will also bind.
Personally I use two kinds of files when I make saddles, one set that is deadon the gauge of the strings, and one slightly more universial to make more room if it is needed.

There are several little tricks to make a good saddle, and even after....I totally lost count a great many years of repairing and setting up guitars.....I still get difficult guitars
Most of the trouble comes from how the material is to work on...
Some saddles are just not meant to be....and sauce is just symptoms treatment!
While it also works great when you do have a good saddle!

It takes alot of practise to get them good!

 

[nognow]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

If your slots are so deep the strings get caught, the nut is to tall. You can also use a file of the right size at a slight angle to give a little more room, but don't go overboard. You have to have a good U shaped slot that fits the string, just.

If the bottom of the groove is square, the string will bind, and if you do not make slight falloff at the end of the groove, it will also bind.
Personally I use two kinds of files when I make saddles, one set that is deadon the gauge of the strings, and one slightly more universial to make more room if it is needed.

There are several little tricks to make a good saddle, and even after....I totally lost count a great many years of repairing and setting up guitars.....I still get difficult guitars
Most of the trouble comes from how the material is to work on...
Some saddles are just not meant to be....and sauce is just symptoms treatment!
While it also works great when you do have a good saddle!

It takes alot of practise to get them good!

is it possible to cheat and just use a slightly thicker gauge? say an 11 for a 10

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

I remember reading Dan Earlwine state that you should use the file sized one thoudanth over the string guage.....011 for a .010 string and so forth. This should give enough room for the string to slide without binding. That, plus rocking the file ever so slightly from side to side helps.

 

[CTN]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

Also get a magnifying glass or a magnifying visor or something that lets you easily see what is going on while you're filing.

 

[MrTondo]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

When thinking about cutting a good nut I always come back to this image:

Just make sure half the string is in, the other half not. To me it really should not be a U-shape, more like half a circle.

 

[AlexR]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

Files should make slots big enough for the strings they are designed for. You file, and the slot is wide enough. If you do it badly you might make it too wide.

So if they are too small then maybe you have got files for the wrong size or they have been mislabelled.

And perhaps another option is that the slots are curved slightly.

 

[EDX]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

thats why i preffer to file the nut with the strings itself (little note on that, for the 3 plain strings i try to get the 3 thinnest wound strings i can, cause at the end is better for the hole to be a little wider than to be shallow) and if the nut happens to be really tall i prefer to file the bottom of it (like you do with locking nuts) so that way i only glue the nut (if i glue it at all) once it is the nearest to perfect i can get

 

[Surgeon]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

As has been said: always use a file a tiny bit wider than the string that's going in the slot, it should get in effortlessly without having too much room around it.

That image from tondo is good except that the smaller unwound strings should be otherwise (according to my experience and Dan earlewine's books): their slots should be as deep as the diameter of the string.

And yes, practice is key.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

First of all, before giving any advice, let me answer your question...

is it a problem with the files or with my technique?

Absolutely, without a doubt, no question about it, it IS your technique! NOT the files.

I have ruined like 7-8 nut blanks because of the same problem

There is a saying that is usually attributable to Einstein (may have been Mark Twain, Ben Franklin, who knows for sure) ..."the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results"

Cutting a nut "properly" (or so it functions the way it is intended and has no problems at all) is not an easy thing to do. It takes knowledge, skill, time, and patience. As you have experienced, strings can bind in the slots if they are cut too small or you haven't provided any ramp or relief. And if you do a lot of bending, your guitar will always be out of tune. If you file them too wide, you can get buzzing or rattling noises and mess up the string-to-string spacing.

Theoretically, your string should touch the nut at three points...the center of the bottom of the slot at the front (toward the fretboard) of the nut; and one point on either side of the diameter of the string (again at the front of the nut). All other parts of the nut slot should be tapered away from the string (relief) to prevent vibrations, buzzing, rattling, etc.

Of course you should use a .010 file to slot for a .010 gauge string, but don't use a .011 file...too big. (But, if you know what you're doing and how to angle and "rock" the file correctly, you can use a .009 file to cut a .010 slot).

Dan Erlewine has some good tips (he makes it look soooo easy, but you still need patience, skill, and smarts). Check out this short vid.

http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Onlin..._tips_for_filing_string_slots_at_the_nut.html

Also read this;

http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Onlin..._Feeler_Gauges_to_Control_Nut_Slot_Depth.html

And this;

http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Nuts_and_Saddles/Nut_Making_and_Setup.html

 

[Strombasa]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

Just to get back to the original question here, they provided me with a 0.013 file that actually was 0.012, and two others in the set were tight besides. Moral: Don't buy their sets, buy individuals at least a step above your anticipated string size. And measure them before you use them, if you can.

The bottom of the groove will be round. The string ain't gonna roll around in it. It's held pretty tightly.

 

[Strombasa]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

I disagree with Mr. Erlewine here. He said that he sets the string height for the feel that he wants. May I modestly suggest that you set the height so that when you play a note on the first fret you're not stretching the string WAYYYY sharp?

 

[PS412]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

I have no clue what the files you are using look like, and I have only had to delicately touch up my nuts. I used tip cleaners for an oxy torch, worked like a charm. I get them free but they probably only cost a buck and a harf at any welding supply shop.

 

[greekdude]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

Use a string as a file.

 

[Strombasa]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

I have no clue what the files you are using look like...

As I referred to the original post, these are the Uo-Chiku files. I guess you can look them up if you're curious. I tried those torch cleaners, but I must have gotten the wrong kind because they did nothing.

 

[Strombasa]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

First of all, before giving any advice, let me answer your question...


Absolutely, without a doubt, no question about it, it IS your technique! NOT the files.

I think that you are wrong. The Uo-Chiko files make slots that are smaller than the corresponding string gauge, and I can't imagine a technique that would make slots that are smaller than the files that are making them. And of course that one I have was a completely different size.

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: nut filing is driving me insane

I have 2 ancient sets of Ibanez nut files.... They basically look like these. There are 2 different size edges on each file from narrow to wide. A competent and experienced luthier can vary the width of the slot by leaning the file left and cut during cuts.

https://reverb.com/item/2159474-hos...t-3-double-sided-luthier-tools-ships-from-usa

For plain strings, I also use a couple different width Exacto razor saws to remove the bulk of the nut material and finish with a few strokes of the tiniest nut file to make the bottom of the slot round.

As per Mr. Tondo's drawing above - that is the ideal we shoot for. For guitars with whammy systems, leave more meat above the string slot to keep it from falling out when dumping the bar.

Mr. Nognow - you say you are a newby, therefore you have no good technique. It's a learning curve, so keep practicing on your own stuff until you are better.

Mr. CTN - Right on! I started needing tri-focals by age 29, and for the last 20 years I've used an LED visor with sets of lenses for close up work on nuts, frets, and so on. They are indispensable for good work.