Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

[tone?]

So i am setting up my Axis, why? cause it has a **** Floyd on it and it is supposed to be setup totally flush with the body so this is tricky on this guitar.

Anyway, here is the beef.

The guitar was strange at first cause it was real tight to play. It kinda bummed me out cause i though i didnt like the guitar. So after examining it for awhile i noticed that the nut also had a gap between it and the fretboard. Not the neck, the fretboard. So i checked the neck and it had a bit of a front bow and needed relief.

So i actually needed to back off on the truss rod quite a bit, until it had a bit of relief. When i did that a small 'pop' came from when the nut is. Aha, thats why the nut wasnt staying in place and pressed against the fretboard as it should.
So now the neck is almost straight, has a slight bit of relief. This has also made the guitar waaay more easy to play and slinkier. It also made the guitar sound much much better.

The problem i have now, is that the action is a tad bit too high. And the floyd is flush with the body. Actually the floyd is a hair lower than it should be.
SO the Floyd needs to be raised a hair and the action needs to be lowered.

How do i go about doing this??
It already has a shim from the factory. EBMM uses these super thin plastic shims that go over the screws on the back of the neck. They put 4 on mine. They are super thin however.
So do i shim it more?? Or does this need for the entire neck pocket to be raised a tad??
See the Axis already has an angle on its neck pocket from design. I dont want to have it too much at an angle cause i am afraid to make the guitar too tight again and too bright.

any ideas???

I also wanted Zerbs idea on this cause i agree with him that neck angle alters tone.

thanks to all!

 

[martin6string]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

The is totally up Theodies alley. Hit him up....

 

[Pierre]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

I never use the rod to set the action.

Check if the Floyd nut is shimmed or not. I'd start with this, and perhaps take it away or use a thinner one. Be careful for open string buzz.


In 99.99999% of guitars with a Floyd nut, the nut is too high by a millemeter or not. It goes a long way with action dude. Check this out first.


If this fails, shim is where it's at. But I have a feeling your action is very, very low, as this shouldn't happen...

Where are the shims? On all 4 screws? If this is the case, take off those from the screws closest to the headstock. This will raise the body end of the neck and lower your action.

Tell us where the shims are, we'll help you out.

 

[tone?]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

OK,


There are shims on the nut but they are crap ones made of some kinda brass and arent all the same. I ordered some last week so monday they should be here.

There are shims in the neck pocket near the body. 4 of them, plastic and real real thin.

The thing about the nut that kinda has me perplexed is that when it was on, the low E string was higher than the 'High' E string. Is that normal for a Floyd nut??
I have one on my Ibanez and it looks like about the same. Although on my Ibby i have a pro shim made of steel.

I didnt use the truss rod to set the action i just set it to get a bit of relief since it had an upwards bow that made it stiff as hell. Also the thing with the nut which it wasnt touching the fretboard. (Can you understand that without a pic?)


thanks tons!

 

[tone?]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

By the way my action is not very very low

 

[tone?]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

here is a shot of the nut.

does it look normal or cut wrong?? The high E string looks a bit deeper than the low E is that normal???

 

[metalspider]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

the high strings can have lower action than the wound strings,thats normal.
as for floyd hight shouldnt really matter as long as its parallel to the body,adjusting the necks angle in th pocket lets you play with the hight of the bridge if theres a problem of it not going low enough or high enough.

my rule of thumb for setting the action is:bridge first and check fret buzz on high frets then adjust trus rod as needed to get rid of buzz on the lower frets (from 12th towards nut).
also to keep action low you need to learn to live with a little fret buzz.

 

[tone?]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

sorry man i know all that. Thing is that this is an Axis guitar so the floyd is set flush to the body. Or else i would have done all that. thanks though

 

[metalspider]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

so just adjust the necks pocket shim as needed

 

[Pierre]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

You need more shims on the body side then.

Or else bring the Floyd as low as you can on the body and sacrifice pullups. I believe that's how Axis' were setup.

 

[tone?]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

that wont change the tone of the guitar if i angle the neck more?? and make it tighter?

 

[theodie]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

Are the shims that are currently in it full neck pocket shims?

Most times just a thin shim at the back of the neck pocket puts the neck at the correct angle and does a better job than a bunch of full pocket shims. You can use a medium pick cut in half and placed in the rear of the pocket and it usually gets you by. Not the most professional way to do it but, considering what you are asking, it is probably one of the better ways for you to do it yourself. A small peice of veneer works well too.

 

[theodie]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

that wont change the tone of the guitar if i angle the neck more?? and make it tighter?

Everything changes everything. Try it and see. A much better playing and correctly setup guitar is far more important than a slight tone chance inst it? Very slight that is.

 

[theodie]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

You need more shims on the body side then.

Or else bring the Floyd as low as you can on the body and sacrifice pullups. I believe that's how Axis' were setup.

+1!!!!!! This Floyd doesnt sound like it was designed to float. This is a flush mounted Floyd, not a recessed. If you want your Floyd to float, dont put a bunch of shims in the neck pocket, take the guitar to a tech to rout the body so the Floyd will float. It will also require a shorter sustain block.

 

[tone?]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

I dont want my Floyd to float.

It has shims that are placed in the rear. Super thin ones. So i guess ill just put a larger one back there. I have some veneer. I will put that in there. its gotta be better than the plastic right?

 

[Pierre]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

What do you mean by 'rear'? Are they on the screws on the body side or headstock side?

For your problem, you need some more on the body side.


'better than plastic'... you report to us if you hear a difference. Whether it's better or not will depend on you. I never needed shims so I have no idea if they even make a difference to the sound.

 

[theodie]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

I dont want my Floyd to float.

It has shims that are placed in the rear. Super thin ones. So i guess ill just put a larger one back there. I have some veneer. I will put that in there. its gotta be better than the plastic right?

It will be better but, it probably wont make a huge difference over plastic. The piece you put in the back of the pocket will only be like 3/8" or narrower so, it wont make much difference.

How thin do you think the shims in it are? Half of a medium pick usualy does the job, They are usually between .060" and .080". Probably 2 stacked pieces of veneer will do it. IIRC, Veneer is usually .040"

 

[theodie]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

What do you mean by 'rear'? Are they on the screws on the body side or headstock side?

For your problem, you need some more on the body side.


'better than plastic'... you report to us if you hear a difference. Whether it's better or not will depend on you. I never needed shims so I have no idea if they even make a difference to the sound.

Body side.

 

[tone?]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

yeah they are on the body side.

by plastic i mean paper thin plastic. weird actually.

i will use the wood veneer

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: Ok i need some real good tech advise. Zerb, guys?

I'm a bit at a loss here because I'm not familiar with the Axis so i can't comment on whether the design is intended to float or not, but I can't understand why anyone would buy shims; haven't any of you ever read Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenance By Robert Pirsig? The best shim material in the world is Budweiser beer can...

In all seriousness, I've never used anything other than carborundum paper, folded rough side out. It's dense and its frictional properties help to stop the neck from moving around.

I use it under nut clamps as well.

For those of you who are wondering what I'm on about, here is the relevant passage:-

His handlebars had started slipping. Not badly, he said, just a little when you shoved hard on them. I warned him not to use his adjustable wrench on the tightening nuts. It was likely to damage the chrome and start small rust spots. He agreed to use my metric sockets and box-ends.

When he brought his motorcycle over I got my wrenches out but then noticed that no amount of tightening would stop the slippage, because the ends of the collars were pinched shut.

"You’re going to have to shim those out," I said.

"What’s shim?"

"It’s a thin, flat strip of metal. You just slip it around the handlebar under the collar there and it will open up the collar to where you can tighten it again. You use shims like that to make adjustments in all kinds of machines."

"Oh," he said. He was getting interested. "Good. Where do you buy them?"

"I’ve got some right here," I said gleefully, holding up a can of beer in my hand.

He didn’t understand for a moment. Then he said, "What, the can?"

"Sure," I said, "best shim stock in the world."

I thought this was pretty clever myself. Save him a trip to God knows where to get shim stock. Save him time. Save him money.

But to my surprise he didn’t see the cleverness of this at all. In fact he got noticeably haughty about the whole thing. Pretty soon he was dodging and filling with all kinds of excuses and, before I realized what his real attitude was, we had decided not to fix the handlebars after all.

As far as I know those handlebars are still loose. And I believe now that he was actually offended at the time. I had had the nerve to propose repair of his new eighteen-hundred dollar BMW, the pride of a half-century of German mechanical finesse, with a piece of old beer can!

I so identify with the author of this...