OK maybe I'm just stupid

tonedeaf1

New member
Ok maybe I'm just stupid, but why do a lot of people who claim that "all-tube" is the only way to go, then put solid state pedals in front of their amp? Isn't a solid state distortion box more or less like adding an extra solid state preamp section? Don't get me wrong, I love some all-tube amps, and would like to get my hands on a JCM800 some day. And as far as power tube saturation being the key to the all-tube sound, my friends JCM800 sounds awesome even at low volume, and my valve junior when cranked doesn't sound any better than a cheap solid state, I'm definitely not hearing anything special from the output tube, maybe I really am tonedeaf. What's the deal?
 
Re: OK maybe I'm just stupid

even with SS boxes infront of a tube amp you still get more character & response & all that than you would with a SS amp

and your valve jr costs $100, but even so i can still tell it's tube

maybe you just have a crappy guitar?
 
Re: OK maybe I'm just stupid

I only use a distortion pedal when it's too late to play as loud as I want, or if i'm trying to be funny with how heavy i can sound.......otherwise I like pure raw tube distortion, no questions asked.

But it's true what Drew said, if you use a boost pedal to piss-off a pissed-off tube amp you're gonna have a way better tone.

You think your Valve Jr. sounds SS? Do yourself a favor and put some new tubes in there...my friend's V Jr. rivals my Bassman in tone (and absolutely thwarts MY valve Jr.) ever since he spent a day swapping out new tubes.

-X
 
Re: OK maybe I'm just stupid

Many solid state distortion pedals do come very close to simulating preamp clipping in a tube amp, especially some of the modified boss pedals you can get nowadays.

A few "all tube" amps utilize solid state in their clipping section as well, the Marshall JCM900 for example.

The most important part of getting that "tube tone" is the power tube section. And the power tube section has to be kicked up a notch for it to really get rockin.

The Valve Jr. is a cheap tube amp...and an entirely different beast than a JCM800. With a little modification you could probably get it sounding pretty good, though its never gonna be a gain-monster. In stock form though, Its nothing special.
 
Re: OK maybe I'm just stupid

"All tube" is not always better. Some tube amps are crap.
With any amp, a solid state pedal will make the sound more "solid state".

I love the sound of power tube saturation from a quality amp. My ultimate judgement is based on the sound of an amp when I play with other musicians, especially when there is a loud drummer involved :D Does it cut the mix?
 
Re: OK maybe I'm just stupid

That's the thing, I bought the VJ head thinking it was a great deal. Add cab (1x12 avatar closed back), speaker (hellatone 60), tubes to swap, pedal, mods, etc. and you're pushing up on $500. I coulda just bought a $500 dollar amp that doesn't need work. Yes my Squier 51 is kinda crappy, but it sounds better through my friends' jcm800, even at low volume, than his american made strat sounds through my valve junior when cranked. I guess I just like preamp distortion more than this "power tube saturation", which totally escapes me on this amp. Maybe a good pedal will help the situation by adding some "solid state distortion mojo" that'll hold me over until i can get a jcm800 and a better guitar.
 
Re: OK maybe I'm just stupid

of course the JCM 800 is going to sound better. You have to consider the amount of work and craftmanship and so on that goes in to each one. The JCM will be one of the best amps out there in som people's eyes. It all depends on your perspective. You get what you pay for, relatively ;)
 
Re: OK maybe I'm just stupid

The solid state pedal and all tube amp are contributing different characteristics to the overall tone. By comparison, tube preamp distortion and solid state preamp distortion are not too different from each other. On the other hand, power tube fuzziness is way different from the other two. Power tubes fuzz up a little, and you can almost convincingly play palm-muted rhythms when this happens, but the sound doesn't actually distort, as with preamp distortion. When either type of preamp distortion is sent through power tubes and even a tube rectifier, the combination of dynamics is a tone which can not be imitated by solid state or hybrid technology.
 
Re: OK maybe I'm just stupid

I have a fender pro junior and i run my demeter fuzz pedal into it, I dont seem to get any major tone difference. I'm not a huge fan of solid state but I admit that NOS Germanium Transistors sound pretty damn good in the right circut. Also With that valve junior try a GT ECC83s, give a pretty good british crunch.
Smilemon
 
Re: OK maybe I'm just stupid

Lots of solid-state drive pedals have a good amount of clarity to them, allowing the base tone of the amp to shine through. If you have a tube amp with a great clean tone, you don't want to muck with that too much. Putting a high-quality solid-state pedal in front of that won't kill your warm tube tone. Sometimes all you want to do is tip your tube amp's tone over the edge, which is what boost and overdrive pedals are meant to do.

It's very difficult to get a solid-state distortion pedal, on the other hand, to compete with a high-gain amplifier that working the pre-gain and power stages.

- Keith
 
Re: OK maybe I'm just stupid

Ok maybe I'm just stupid, but why do a lot of people who claim that "all-tube" is the only way to go, then put solid state pedals in front of their amp? Isn't a solid state distortion box more or less like adding an extra solid state preamp section? Don't get me wrong, I love some all-tube amps, and would like to get my hands on a JCM800 some day. And as far as power tube saturation being the key to the all-tube sound, my friends JCM800 sounds awesome even at low volume, and my valve junior when cranked doesn't sound any better than a cheap solid state, I'm definitely not hearing anything special from the output tube, maybe I really am tonedeaf. What's the deal?

Honestly, the only reason I use anything solid state in front of my amp is the money issue. I don't have the money for all the pedals I need, so I use multi-effects. However, honestly, if they made an all-analog version of the ME-50, I'd buy it and/or wait to afford it.
 
Re: OK maybe I'm just stupid

Even if it's "all-analog," it's still going to be solid-state -- unless you throw tubes in it for the gain patches.

You can design a computer into the pedal that basically just activates and/or deactivates the various pedal circuit boards inside of it. That wouldn't be too hard, I would think. I work on aircraft that do switching via relays and you sometimes have a digital computer somewhere activating something non-computerized via relay....
 
Re: OK maybe I'm just stupid

You can design a computer into the pedal that basically just activates and/or deactivates the various pedal circuit boards inside of it. That wouldn't be too hard, I would think. I work on aircraft that do switching via relays and you sometimes have a digital computer somewhere activating something non-computerized via relay....

:eek13:
 
Re: OK maybe I'm just stupid

You can design a computer into the pedal that basically just activates and/or deactivates the various pedal circuit boards inside of it. That wouldn't be too hard, I would think. I work on aircraft that do switching via relays and you sometimes have a digital computer somewhere activating something non-computerized via relay....

Is that what you meant the first time? Must've missed that. ;)
 
Re: OK maybe I'm just stupid

comparing a Valve jr to a JCM800 is like comparing a Pinto to a Porsche!

seriously though...a 5watt 1 el84 tube head through a 1x12 cab compared to a 100watt 4 el34 probably sitting on a 4x12 isn't a good gauge for any kind of comparison...it's not apples and oranges its apples and filet mignon!
 
Re: OK maybe I'm just stupid

Is that what you meant the first time? Must've missed that. ;)

Well that's one way, or just a enclosed box with a bunch of pedals daisy-chained to each other, etc. You could use a toggle switch on top with like 10 distortion pedal PC boards inside that basically switches which unit is getting the 9v power from the battery inside, or the internal power supply, etc.

Don't make me get a degree and design one! :D
 
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