Opinions on an Epiphone Dot

Doublea1269

New member
I bought an Epiphone Dot a number of years ago and replaced the pickups with the SD 59 Blues set. I actually hadn't been able to use it much, as we've been playing stuff for quite a while where I have other guitars that were more suited. Lately, I've been grabbing the Dot again, but wow, does it seem overly bright, especially in the bridge. I have to roll off the tone a good deal to get a sound that isn't on the harsh side (brightness, not output). What I failed to realize when I made the pup swap was that the Dot is not made from laminated mahogany, but maple. So when I replaced the stock AII pups, the guitar seemed overly warm and I wanted to get a little life out of it. Now I've taken it (seems like it, anyway) in the opposite direction.
Most of my pickups are not high output, and I wouldn't be crazy about that type in this guitar. I guess I'm looking for a vintage or medium output with balanced tonality...not too warm, not too bright.
Does anyone have thoughts on this? Is there a setup issue with the guitar, or did I really have pups installed that are too bright for a layered maple body? If a change is recommended, does anyone have suggestions?
 
What I recommend is to swap an A2 into the bridge 59 and change the pots to the bridge to 250k. That will warm it up and knock down the shrillness while keeping your tone setup similar.
 
thats not a bad plan but swapping pots on a 335 style guitar is a pita. a dot with paf type pups is bright in the bridge, depending on your rig, that can be glorious. swapping in an a2 is a good first step.
 
Yeah, I would do anything I can to avoid swapping out pots on a Dot. 59s, even with an A2, can be bright in maple. Maybe try an Alnico II Pro set?
 
Instead of A2 try UOA5. It will knock down the high end a bit without making the sound too middy and mushy.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk
 
I have a dot and was actually pretty happy with the stock alnico classics.
I swapped in Mojotone 59 clones and it’s now my go-to guitar for gigging.
they are an unpotted alnico 4 set. In my experience they are very balanced and even across the eq spectrum. They have good high, mid and bass response, but not overly or noticeably pronounced that I notice on any.
or if you’re not wanting unpotted, I think Duncan Saturday Night Specials would kick some real ass in a semi hollow.
 
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My first trick to "Gibsonize" Epi copies is something that Seymour recommended in the old Duncan FAQ, back in the days: I connect permanently a low value capacitor between the hot and ground of the output jack. By low value, I mean: a few hundreds of picofarads, and not the thousands of nanofarads of usual tone caps...

I start with 1000pF / 1nF; Then I diminish or increase this value according to those available on the market and on how they alter the tone of the guitar to "tune"...
IF capacitance has to be increased and makes the tone too nasal, I add sometimes a resistor in parallel with the cap (between 2.2M and 470k), in order to make the resonant peak less focused.

The optimal values will depend on each guitar, each rig, each player. Now, that's not something difficult to try nor really time consuming since it can be tested with a pair of alligator clips on a jack plug. It's not expensive either, since a capacitor costs a few cents. The main defy here is understanding what's going on with added caps... Fortunately, it's explained on various websites. See the fig. 8 in the page below:

http://buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/

NOTE: putting a permanent RESISTOR between hot and ground of the jack output would avoid to change the 4 pots in a semi hollow. It's way easier and takes a few minutes. It's not exacly the same than changing all pots but it remains largely equivalent and even identical with some settings (when one single pickup is selected and its two pots full up, a 270k or 220k from hot to ground + a pair of 500k pots = practically the same thing than two 250k pots).

Also: Doublea1269, have you considered nylon saddles? In some cases, tweaking the hardware solves the tonal issues that we'd attribute to pickups......

FWIW: my two cents about some tricks rarely evoked but interesting to try IME / IMHO - and without discarding other advices: changing magnets, pots, pickups are obviously further steps in the desired direction.

Good luck in your quest. :-)
 
I hadn't thought much about looking into capacitors and the like, or the pots. I had thought about the magnet swap but wasn't sure that it would take me down the experimental rabbit hole! I have a friend who might be able to do Freefrog's suggestion with me...I had just assumed that I'd chosen the wrong set of pickups for the particular guitar, which could still be the case. So I'll talk to my friend about trying the capacitor trick, and if not, I don't know, maybe Seth Lovers or Alnico Pros? Or possibly Pearly Gates wouldn't be quite so bright? Or maybe on to something like the 59s from Mojotone or someone else...I'm trying not to turn this into a big project, but when it comes to gear, I know better by now!
 
I know people can be reluctant to go down the rabbit hole, but vintage output pickups are all bright in the bridge. If you choose something else it's gonna be more of the same thing. You pretty much have to mod something to round off the treble. And it's less money anyway.
 
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I was afraid you might say something like that! Any good medium pup that wouldn't be so bright, or it's just inevitable that I visit the rabbit hole?!
 
The Custom Custom is medium output, nice and warm, and has somewhat classic tone. It isn't all metal-ized.
 
Try using curly cable to clip the brightness …sounds silly but it works….
 
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For ease and simplicity, I say do the mag swap to an A2 first.


After thatTake it to "A Guy" and let him do the tough stuff. That's what they get paid for, and try an A2P. 59n/A2p should be sweet in a guitar that bright.


Also - what is the rig you are playing through? Isn't a Vox AC15/30 or a Fender twin by chance?
 
So I'll talk to my friend about trying the capacitor trick, and if not, I don't know, maybe Seth Lovers or Alnico Pros?

These solutions aren't mutually exclusive, FWIW. :-) The last Epi LP that I've "tuned" had Seth Lover's + the cap trick and it sounded more than good.

Or possibly Pearly Gates wouldn't be quite so bright?

A PG bridge in a maple guitar is extremely bright, IME. I've met this problem with a solid body and have solved it with my "capacitor trick".

justFred : your idea is not silly at all. A curly cable is longer than a straight one and as such, it exhibits... more capacitance - any guitar cable being nothing else than a long tubular capacitor. IOW, the "capacitor trick" that I evoked has the same tonal effect than a curly cable, but the component involved is just smaller & cheaper. :-)

Oh, and... I agree with Clint55 about vintage voiced PU's as bright anyway. But many guitar heroes of yesteryears precisely used curly and/or long cables between guitar and amp.
 
To answer one poster's question, my amp is a Blackstar HT-20...not like a bright Fender. One thing I'm wondering if someone can explain...does the 59 bridge sound so bright in this particular guitar because of the scooped mids? I noticed that the 59s are significantly mid-scooped compared to the others. Would that be part of the issue? If that is the case, would the magnet swap help much, or would I be better off putting in something that has more mids? Or would the other mentioned fixes do it? Just wondering if the scoop plays a role here.
 
As a footnote, I post a comparison between the ACOUSTIC responses of two Gibson semi-hollow guitars and their Epiphone clones. All were miked with the same condenser mic at the same distance etc. It should suggest what the related experiment has shown us here a few years ago: Epi copies were systematically brighter acoustically (and poorer harmonically) than their Gibson elders.
 

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I'd definitely try an A2 and/or A3 in the bridge and see how far that gets you. Stuff like this is why I love my Boss EQ200, I can set up a curve to minimize any unwelcome frequency spikes for each guitar but allow them to have their own character. It eliminates the need to get it perfect, especially with semi hollow guitars.
 
It's just thrown me, because I have several guitars with vintage-type pups and have never had an issue with brightness. Have an Epi Les Paul and ES-175 that each came with Gibson 57 Classics, a PRS SE Custom 24 with the Slash set, and a Strat with the SD AP2 trembucker...all obviously have some brightness, but it's never an overpowering, harsh tone. I've never had any problem like this. I'll either talk to my friend or go to the local shop and see what makes the most sense for a first step.
 
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