Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

[KLINKDETROIT]

I have 2 Orange drop caps at 223 One is larger and shaped more like a pill (715P400V 223J 0105)

The other one is smaller and reads (225P100W 223 0350)

Obviously they have different specs but what is the best one for a humbucker with 500k pots in a L.P. ? Does the higher number of volts equal certain tonal attributes? More bass etc? They do sound different to me but I need others input and info as I may buy some more of the larger types.

Anyone have knowledge on this subject? Thanks

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

Shouldn't make any diff. But I'd go with the smaller voltage one just because.

 

[greco]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

I'd go with the smaller voltage one just because.

Lew:

You left us all in a state of suspense!!

Because.......................... ??????

Thanks

Dave

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

Lew:

You left us all in a state of suspense!!

Because.......................... ??????

Thanks

Dave

Well...just because!

There's virtually no voltage coming from those pickups so the 100 volt and the 400 volt orange drops are both overkill.

So I'd go with the 100 volt just...because! :laugh2:

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

Well...just because!

There's virtually no voltage coming from those pickups so the 100 volt and the 400 volt orange drops are both overkill.

So I'd go with the 100 volt just...because! :laugh2:

Because you can save the higher voltage cap for a higher voltage application,plus the lower voltage cap is smaller and won't look like overkill in your guitar! :6:

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

Because you can save the higher voltage cap for a higher voltage application,plus the lower voltage cap is smaller and won't look like overkill in your guitar! :6:

Phew...glad someone knew the answer! :chairfall

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

Its weird though because the 400v one seems to have more life to it and tighter lows even when the tone is on 10. I knbow I am not supposed to hear a difference but last night at rehearsal 4 of us all heard it. HMMMMMMMMMM. Could the higher volt cap let less lows/highs go to ground?

 

[ErikH]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

Mojo. It's all mojo. You hear the difference because you want to, not because it's actually there. Tonally, in the guitar circuit, no difference.

I use 35 volt or 16 volt caps in mine. Still overkill but the leads are easy to work with.

 

[greco]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

(Sorry Lew, I just couldn't resist.)

Such electronically and technologically based responses.

I wish that I knew all that stuff...guess I do now !!

Dave

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

If someone doesnt know the cap was replaced but heard the difference and can tell and have the same observations as someone else at a later date I hardly think its mojo. That is what has happened time and again during my tone experiments and extensive tests between different pickups etc. The fact is there are minute differences in different caps or else there would ony be one type. It reminds me of someone saying that all rap is the same or all rock is the same etc. Once your ears grow accustom to the minor differences between equipment, bands etc. That is when you hear the difference. These are very small differences but to someone that is 95% hjappy with their tone that extra 5% seems atainable. That is why there are so many questions about different things on a site like this. I wonder if people can say that there is a difference between scatterwinding and machine wound pickups etc. Of course there are differences. I would suggest that people do the research and take the time to compare these differences like I have and then see if its just mojo. I plan on posting some clips within the next month or so of some of my mojo. You be the judge.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

What else changed on the guitar besides the cap between those sessions? Strings? Pickups? Did you add/change anything else in your rig?

I'm not looking to start an argument, just stating facts about such things. There's more to noticing such a difference than a cap of the same value and same type (metal film, poly film, silver mica or ceramic) but different voltage rating in a circuit that has such low voltage as a guitar circuit.

I've done such comparisons, using lower voltage caps though, and the difference from one to the other wasn't even audible. Same guitar, same pickups, same strings, same amp, same settings. The time between playing with one or the other was about 5 minutes.

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

No arguments dude. Nothing else changed. We had test clips hooked to the volume and tone then swapped caps very quickly. One guy played a pattern then stopped I changed the cap out in less than 3 seconds then he played the same pattern. I recorded all the caps in pro tools also and heard a difference days later. The tone was on 10 every time also. We tried a black beauty at .022 a Hovland at .022, orange drops at .022 ( 2 in question) / .033/ .047, Mallory at .022. They do let things bleed to ground differently and that is why I feel that they make a difference even if they are on 10. I even did a clip without a cap and it sounded airy and lacking low mid substance compared to ones with a cap.

 

[John Wymore]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

The 715 series Orange Drops are polypropolene and the 225 series are polyester. This may explain the difference you are hearing, but I'm certainly not positive of that.

I prefer using the 215's because they are available in 100V which are smaller and easier to solder into a cavity. To my ears they sound fine. Some say they like the 715's better but I think the minimum rating they come in are 400V. YMMV

 

[ErikH]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

There's your difference right there, manufacturer and different values. That I would agree on, yes, there's an audible difference, slight, but it's there.

The difference I'm talking about is the cap voltage rating, same manufacturer, same value. You won't hear a difference between two .022 Orange Drops or Mallorys or Hovlands or whatever else where one is rated at 400v and the other is 100v. That's what I'm getting at.

It would be interesting to hear the results of the same tests but with the tone rolled back to half and again rolled all the way down.

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

That explains it all. Thanks alot. I found that same tonal difference in my amps capacitors when I changed some values around and had some tantalum caps instead of mica and like the tantalum ones better. I think I am liking the 400v orange drop caps the best. Thanks again for the info.

 

[Curly]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

this discussion often ends up in the realm of metaphysics

FWIW, I believe the original bumble bee caps in Les Pauls were 400v, but I'm agreed that the value and type is what's important.

I've referred to Ken Fischer's comments before when this came up, but I've had a couple beers, and I'm not even going to bother looking up the link.

he said the direction of the leads made a difference, and you should test the cap to see which way sounds best.

I think you already answered the question though, since you said everyone noticed a difference. Don't second guess yourself, just go with what sounds good.

---------------------------------------
my usual disclaimer for cap discussions:
we've spent more time talking about it then it's worth.
(c'mon, it's a $1 part)

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

Yes the bumblebees are 400v. We had the direction where you could read the writing left to right although they may have labled them in a different direction at random? Who know. The direction does make a slight difference though much like the direction of your guitar cable and speaker cable. I think that the cable direction is why alot of people think that their amp sounds different day to day aside from humidity etc.

 

[Curly]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

here are Ken Fischer's comments that I said I couldn't find:

In chapter 2.1 I said, "Never use a ceramic disc as a tone cap in a guitar". Of course the question became what I should use? I don't know!!! O.K., I do know! (You guys, and gals are sharp)
First capacitors come in multitude of types, values, and voltages. The Sprague Black Beauty, also known as "bumble bee caps", are really great. Of course they don't make them any more.
I have heard that Gibson has had these caps made again for the 2003 Gibson Historics, but are not being as an aftermarket item. If you have a 50's Gibson, the .02 (really .022) Black Beauty was used. I used an old Fender value, Black Beauty in my Tele. It is a .047, (Fender calls for .05, which is for our purpose, the same thing). These caps were nicknamed Bumble Bee because they had color code bands around a black body. They look sort of like a giant Bumble bee.

Let's get to the important points of choosing a modern cap. First you want the correct value. Of course, feel free to try other values than traditional ones, if you are after something different. Most humbuckers use .022 (.020), and most single coils .05 (.047). You want separate film foil, not metallized types. Mylar and polyester film works better then polypropylene film.
Since pickups put out very low voltage, the voltage rating should not matter, but it does seem to have an affect. Traditional voltage values are commonly, but not always, 200 or 400 volt ratings.
The Black Beauty caps used in old guitars were typically the 400 volt type. Another interesting point is that, if you reverse the cap end to end, it will sound different in use. I jump mine in with test clips, run the tone control through its range, and use directions my ear choose. Also, if you have many of the same type, try a bunch of them. They will vary slightly from cap to cap. It's worth the time to choose one you really like with your gear.
Lastly, some people put a bright cap from hot to slider on the volume control. This is so the highs do not roll off when turning the control down. This is very amplifier/speaker dependent.
In any case, a silver mica type is my choice, if you use one. The value judged by ear, using your guitar with your amplifier. 30PF to 220PF is the most common range. Fender once did a Tele with a .001 (1000PF) --- OUCH!

Well I hope this clears up some questions. Until the next time, All the Best. Ken Fischer

 

[Shawn Graham]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

I don't want to sound like a douchebag smartass but the voltage rating in a cap doesn't matter in a guitar circuit. what you need to look for is the rating in farads (the .047 or .022 micro-farad or 2200 pico farad.Also these aren't the only value caps out there). check out harmony central's web site they have a pretty good article on caps. I also know this because I am an electronics student. The .047 micro-farad will be more bassy at high gain whereas a 2200 pico farad will allow some of the 31Hz "mud" to pass to ground and it will allow higher frequencies to pass to the amp. If you want to figure the freq. the formula is 1
-----------
6.28x(ohms of pot)x(cap value)
To find cap value you need, replace cap value in formula w/freq. you wish to drop to ground.

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: Orange drop cap values. 100v/ 400v differences?

I like the .033 orange drop the best for polyester type and the .022 polypropolyne orange drop overall. I was doing some capacitor tweaking on my amp and tend to like the 495 picofarad tantalum capacitors but am having a hard time finding the yeloww ones in anything above 495? Any ideas where to buy them. Mouser is a little overwhelming for me as I am no electronics guru. Thanks