Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

[mindys87]

Hello everyone,
i'm new here, so nice too meet you.

I have orange ppc212 and using it with the engl ironball. I tried to like orange for quite a while, but i'm never satisfied with the sound. I don't know, seems like orange has too much bass or mids or simply doesn't fit with ironball. So i'm thinking about selling it and getting another 2x12. I actually wanted 4x12 Marshall, because engl sounded godlike through it, but when i think now, i'll never need that much power that 4x12 provides. I heard that Zilla fatboy has very good low end response and it is really close soundwise to what you can get through 4x12 cabinet. Another one is Engl pro 2x12, because it's engl it should sound great paired with ironball, but i can't try it anywhere in my country. Orange sounds really dark, i think i want a little brighter sound from the cab, but to have good low end and clear sound, similar to Marshall. Which one is the darkest of the three?

Thanks a lot.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

Have you tried simply changing the speakers in your current cab?

 

[mindys87]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

Not really, but here are some examples that cabs with same speakers sound so different:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORX8PzQTi5A&t=52s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETsveEH7a5U

 

[Outshined]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

How about making your orange cab partially open back, lifting it up, and changing at least one speaker for say wgs retro 30?

Fwiw, I have a zilla fatbaby which is a really good OS 112 cab to pair with a 112 combo amp.

Lähetetty minun SM-G950F laitteesta Tapatalkilla

 

[mindys87]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

I think that orange cabs lack mids and are very trebly and bassy at the same time, making it mushy sounding, at least ppc212. I can't talk about 4x12 or 1x12, because i haven't tried them. It seems like they're better suited for rock, like deep purple, than for something like Metallica. What you think about sound that orange cabs processing?

 

[Outshined]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

Well my bandmate plays his rockerverb 50 head thru ppc212 cab, the open back one, and it has gobs of mids. I think the orange head emphasizes especially the lower mids, making the overall sound kinda dark and not very articulate. I wouldn't blame on the cab in that case...

Lähetetty minun SM-G950F laitteesta Tapatalkilla

 

[mindys87]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

Yeah, it's really dark sounding. Maybe V30 and G12T75 combination would be great. I'll try Zilla Fatboy this week with V30's and if i like it better than my orange i'll get it or i will consider getting G12T75 and pairing it with V30.

 

[mindys87]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

And what about G12H30 speakers? Seems like a mix between V30 and G12T75?

 

[dave74]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

Drop a k100 in there with the v30. It will add definition to the lows and clarity to the highs. Better match than the t75. (IMO)

 

[mindys87]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

In a vertical 2x12 cab, should i put g12h30 in top position because of the lower wattage and leave v30 on the bottom? I wonder if v30 doesn't owerpower g12h30? I was reading that this combo is very good sounding to alot of people, but some folks are worried about owerpowering thing.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

Hello everyone,
I actually wanted 4x12 Marshall, because engl sounded godlike through it, but when i think now, i'll never need that much power that 4x12 provides.
.

If that is the tonal reference then that is what you should do. 4x12s are not too powerful. They are really about tone. Nothing sounds quite like a 4x12. There are lots of reasons to go 2x12 instead of 4x12: size and weight, if it fits in your car, if you need to go up a down stairs, and the psychological effect on people, and so forth, but too powerful is not a problem.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

And what about G12H30 speakers? Seems like a mix between V30 and G12T75?....In a vertical 2x12 cab, should i put g12h30 in top position because of the lower wattage and leave v30 on the bottom? I wonder if v30 doesn't owerpower g12h30?

Vintage 30s and G12H30s are the same loudness. G12Ts are 3db less loud than v30s. However, with H30s the power handling of a 2x12 is only 60 watts.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

If that is the tonal reference then that is what you should do. 4x12s are not too powerful. They are really about tone. Nothing sounds quite like a 4x12. There are lots of reasons to go 2x12 instead of 4x12: size and weight, if it fits in your car, if you need to go up a down stairs, and the psychological effect on people, and so forth, but too powerful is not a problem.

I second this. A 4x12 doesn't add power. It spreads power to more speakers and gives a bigger, wider tone, but not really a louder one.

I had an oversized offset Emperor 2x12 with Swamp Thangs that almost did the 4x12 thing, but it was almost as big and annoying to move as my 4x12s and still lacked that special something.

Now the only reason I'm not using one of my 4x12s is if I'm using my 6x12.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

Vintage 30s and G12H30s are the same loudness. G12Ts are 3db less loud than v30s. However, with H30s the power handling of a 2x12 is only 60 watts.

right. the v30/h30 combo handles 60w and both speakers are equally efficient. ive had that combo in a fender vibroking 2x12 for more than a decade. its great!

 

[mindys87]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

Thanks everyone for the answers! I'm thinking about getting vertical cab. Any thoughts on vertical vs angled vertical? Doesn't angled one provide less bottom end because of the speaker angle on the top? And i'll probably get V30/G12H30 speaker combo. Which one is better suited on the bottom and which one on top?

 

[dave74]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

Hold up now.

You said the tone of the Marshall 412 was more what you liked? Which cab was it? standard 1960 type with the t75 speakers?

You said the orange 212 with v30s had to much bass or mids,,,,,,,what do you think it needs more of?

What type of music style or tones do you want?

 

[mindys87]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

Hold up now.

You said the tone of the Marshall 412 was more what you liked? Which cab was it? standard 1960 type with the t75 speakers?

You said the orange 212 with v30s had to much bass or mids,,,,,,,what do you think it needs more of?

What type of music style or tones do you want?

Yeah, i liked 1960a with g12t75's. But i don't need this big cab, i want smaller, that i will use in my room and at gigs. I just learned that 8 and 16 ohms V30's are sounding really different. My orange has 2 8ohm V30's and they are darker sounding than 16ohm, especially in this cab. I really love that 80's/90's Metallica sound, whole thrash music, that really crunchy, but also heavy and bright sound, but with a good low end and well pronounced high frequencies for solos. Now i'm playing in the band and it's far from thrash, we're playing some grunge, stoner, blues influenced alternative rock/metal. Alter Bridge is something that we are looking at as our bigger influence. So, i want really universal spectre of sound coming from my amp and cab, because i love playing something heavier and thrashier and mellower stuff. I guess g12t75's are perfect for that thrashy sound, but maybe they are a little to scooped and one directed for other stuff at the same time.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

Dude, don't call your band "grunge stoner alternative metal" then say you sound like Alter Bridge. That's like telling me Burger King is a gourmet restaurant.

Alter Bridge is a Christian rock band.

 

[mindys87]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

Dude, don't call your band "grunge stoner alternative metal" then say you sound like Alter Bridge. That's like telling me Burger King is a gourmet restaurant.

Alter Bridge is a Christian rock band.

D I didn't say that we sound like Alter Bridge, but i'm and my band members are influenced by them and their sound at some point, we are far from them musically.

 

[dave74]

Re: Orange ppc212 vs Engl pro 2x12 vs Zilla Fatboy 2x12

You might do well with a Marshall 1936 212.
I really don't believe the v30/h30 will take you far from your current Orange's tone,,,,,or at least not enough.