Out of phase

[TedKirkendall]

I have a pair of SD Seth Lover humbuckers in my 335 style guitar. I would like to get the T-Bone Walker/Peter Green out of phase sound in the middle position. I understand that means I flip one of the magnets. Could someone please point me to detailed instructions on how to do this? Thanks very much.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Flip the mag, Black to ground, green is lead. Only do this for one pup, it doesn't matter which one.

This is assuming you have the 4 conductor version. If you have the single conductor braided ground version it's a bit trickier and will require you to add a separate (green) wire to the start or the screw coil If this is the case let us know and we can walk you through the process.

 

[Clint 55]

I believe he only needs to flip the mag.

 

[Mincer]

Welcome to the forum! Are you asking how to physically flip the magnet? It's easy, especially without wax in the pickup. Once the pickup is out of the cavity (you don't need to unsolder it), lightly peel back the tape around the bobbins. Loosen the 4 screws on the bottom of the pickup, and push the baseplate away from the coils a few mm. Slowly push the magnet out from one short end to the other, and flip the magnet like a pancake, along the short side. Push the magnet back in, and tighten the screws. Finally, re-tape the the bobbins.

 

[Clint 55]

And take the covers off and replace them.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Flip the mag, Black to ground, green is lead. Only do this for one pup, it doesn't matter which one.

This is assuming you have the 4 conductor version. If you have the single conductor braided ground version it's a bit trickier and will require you to add a separate (green) wire to the start or the screw coil If this is the case let us know and we can walk you through the process.

If you flip the magnet and reverse the wiring, what you'll basically do is create a reverse wired reverse polarity (RWRP) version of a humbucker, which will be in phase again.

Greenie flipped the magnet, supposedly by accident, but wired the pickup back in correctly, presumably because his pickup wires were the single core (hot) braided sheath (ground) type.

If your Seths are 4-core wired, swap the black and green connections, so the black becomes the ground and the green the hot. Leave the red and white soldered to each other and remember the bare ALWAYS goes directly to ground. This will achieve the same effect as flipping the magnet without having to take the pickup apart.

If your Seths have the single core plus sheath wires, you can solder a little insulated wire "tail" to the braid, then cover the braid with heat shrink to avoid shorts. Then the inner core goes to ground and that tail you added becomes the hot.

Alternatively, in either case, you can flip the magnet. That involves removing ALL the screws, the pole pieces and the little ones on the back, then gently pulling the pickup apart. Use a dab of paint, tape, or correction fluid one one corner of the magnet for orientation reference. Then either turn the magnet over, keeping the paint blob at the same end, or turn the magnet through 180 degrees without flipping it over. Don't flip it over and rotate it or you'll end up back with the same polarity as you started with. Then put the pickup back together and wire it up as if nothing had been done.

One other point, Greenie put the pickup back in upside down as well, so the neck pickup screw pole pieces were nearest the bridge, not the neck.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Just to add, unlike the sort of bar magnet you probably played with in school, the poles on a humbucker magnet are down the long sides, not at the ends.

So if you start with a magnet that has its north pole on the right side and you flip it over, the north pole moves to the left. Same thing happens if you don't flip it over, but do rotate it. But if you flip it over and rotate it, the north pole ends up back on the right, all be it with the magnet now being "upside down but the same way round", which doesn't affect polarity at all.

 

[TedKirkendall]

Thanks everyone for all the help!

 

[Artie]

There's no need to flip the mag. That's only necessary if you want to split to the inside coils, and remain humbucking.

Just use black for ground, green for hot, and connect red/white as usual. That's all.

 

[jeremy]

seths are almost always single conductor so cant do that

you could open the pup up and rewire it 4 cond, but most people dont wanna get into that

 

[Artie]

seths are almost always single conductor so cant do that

Oops. I missed that part. My bad.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

seths are almost always single conductor so cant do that

you could open the pup up and rewire it 4 cond, but most people dont wanna get into that

Forgot about that, even though I fitted a set to my Epi 335 a few months back.

Flip the magnet and wire up the regular way or solder a "tail" to the braid, then heatshrink the entire braid and the soldering to the tail to stop it shorting, then solder the tail to the volume pot lug and the original inner core to ground.

 

[Securb]

When your pickups are out of phase, if you roll back one vol just a touch, you uncover a whole new tone.

 

[GuitarDoc]

I believe he only needs to flip the mag.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. I answered too quickly without thinking.

 

[GuitarDoc]

seths are almost always single conductor so cant do that

That is true, but they ARE available as 4 conductor. That's why I asked the OP which one he has because it is possible that he has 4 cond.

 

[GuitarDoc]

If your Seths have the single core plus sheath wires, you can solder a little insulated wire "tail" to the braid, then cover the braid with heat shrink to avoid shorts. Then the inner core goes to ground and that tail you added becomes the hot.

But if you do that, then the pup (baseplate, cover) won't be grounded. Best to separate the screw coil start wire from the braided ground wire and add that pigtail to the coil start wire and leave the braided shield connected to the baseplate so the pup can be grounded (separate from the coil start wire). And actually, if you're going to go to that bother, you might as well change the pup over to 4 condutor with ground. Yes, that's more complicated but in the end it is a better solution.

Alternatively, in either case, you can flip the magnet. That involves removing ALL the screws, the pole pieces and the little ones on the back, then gently pulling the pickup apart. Use a dab of paint, tape, or correction fluid one one corner of the magnet for orientation reference. Then either turn the magnet over, keeping the paint blob at the same end, or turn the magnet through 180 degrees without flipping it over. Don't flip it over and rotate it or you'll end up back with the same polarity as you started with. Then put the pickup back together and wire it up as if nothing had been done..

You don't need to "remove" any screws, especially the pole pieces. Just loosen the 4 baseplate screws, push the magnet out, flip it, put it back in, tighten the baseplate screws.

 

[jeremy]

When your pickups are out of phase, if you roll back one vol just a touch, you uncover a whole new tone.

thats the only way i like out of phase. if its a master volume, then i find it a useless tone. if you have a volume for each pup, then there can be magic there

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

But if you do that, then the pup (baseplate, cover) won't be grounded. Best to separate the screw coil start wire from the braided ground wire and add that pigtail to the coil start wire and leave the braided shield connected to the baseplate so the pup can be grounded (separate from the coil start wire). And actually, if you're going to go to that bother, you might as well change the pup over to 4 condutor with ground. Yes, that's more complicated but in the end it is a better solution.

Good point. Forgot about that.

You don't need to "remove" any screws, especially the pole pieces. Just loosen the 4 baseplate screws, push the magnet out, flip it, put it back in, tighten the baseplate screws.

Agreed. If the nickel cover cooperates.