Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

[rlapid]

Hello everyone! Sorry if this has been answered in a prior thread, but I could not find a definitive answer after searching. I recently purchased a Gibson Les Paul Studio Lite, in which the first owner had SD pickups installed. He could not remember which models he had put in, so I took the guitar apart and according to the labels underneath each pickup, the bridge is an SH-4 (label reads 'JB') and the neck is an SH-1b, 59 bridge (label reads '59 BL'). I was a bit surprised to see that someone had installed a bridge pickup in neck position - is this normal or recommended for this application?

Also, I have noticed that when switching between the neck and bridge pickup, the neck is definitely much louder and is a bit harsh sounding. I usually have to turn the neck volume down to keep things balanced. Something doesn't seem right since the JB is supposed to be a much hotter pickup. Is there a chance the pickups were not wired correctly? I looked at pickup heights and both seem to be at a reasonable height, and the neck pickup is definitely not closer to the strings than the bridge pickup. Does the problem have anything to do with the 59 bridge being installed in the neck position?

Any help would be appreciated, thank you!

 

[Laughing Kookaburra]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

Well, having used that combo (but a neck 59 in the neck), I can't say at all that the 59 was harsh, or louder. Not sure if the neck 59 being a bridge model would cause it to be harsh. A bridge 59 will be a bit louder than a neck model (if I understand correctly), but I'm at a loss to explain your issue, because I don't think it would be so much louder as to overwhelm a JB.

I may be missing something, though.

 

[rlapid]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

Thanks for the reply, Kookaburra. I agree with you, a bridge 59 shouldn't be louder than a JB. Hopefully someone can shed some more light on this before I consult a guitar shop.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

A 59 bridge model in the neck is not a big deal. Anything under 9k will normally sound great in the neck slot.

As far as output goes, you may have a bad solder joint or another wiring problem causing the volume drop. Pickup height in relationship to the strings can also impact output. Back off the 59 and raise the JB and see if that helps. If not you have to start checking the solder joints and metering the pots to make sure everything is up to spec.

 

[orpheo]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

The 59 bridge in the neck is one of my favourites. The jb may be wired improperly but it should even out nicely. How far is the jb relative to the strings? That might have something to do with the perceived output.

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

Check your switch... the JB and '59 sound like they are reversed. When you switch to your neck, it's prolly the JB and vice versa. Those selectors can sometimes just be twisted around if you have a little service length in your wiring.

Or maybe someone switched the labels? Either way, the louder and more harsh pickup is the JB.

 

[rlapid]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

Thanks for all the replies everyone. A lot of good useful insight! I will double check pickup heights and if that doesn't work, I'll have to look at the wiring and switch. I'll keep everyone posted. Cheers

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

You dont need to check the wiring, just tap on the pole pieces of the pickups with something metal and with the guitar plugged into an amp. The "live" pickup will "pop".

 

[Aceman]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

#1 Switch the pickups - JB in the bridge.

#2 Adjust them thoroughly -height/poles

#3 Let us know what pots are in there - 300k or 500k

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

Ace...the JB is already in the bridge.

The '59b in the neck is a great pup. If all the wiring is correct, and you want to reduce the output and harshness of the 59, put an A4 or A2 magnet in it. But first try adjusting pup heights and pole piece heights.

 

[rlapid]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

Robert, great tip, thanks. I did the 'pole piece tap test' and the switch and pickups are in the correct positions, ruling out the 59 and JB being reversed.

I opened up the volume/tone pot cavity, and here is what I found: the volume pots are inscribed with the codes 'R1379110' and '440-700--' there appears to be more numbers/letters after the 700, but the solder has covered them up. The tone pots are inscribed with 'R1379110' and '440-71079A'. A brief search led me to believe they are factory, but I cannot determine if they are 300k or 500k.

Here are some pictures of the pots.

Volume:

Tone:

Let me know if you guys need anything else.

 

[rlapid]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

A deeper search yielded this:

Gibson Pot Database: home
Part number: 71079
Resistance: 100 K
Taper: special audio taper (linear?)
Shaft length: 1 1/16"
Notes: lugs up


Gibson Pot Database: home
Part number: 70034
Resistance: 300 K
Taper: linear
Shaft length:
Notes: 1 lug up

According to the part numbers, it appears that these are the pots I have. So if I am correct, the volume pots are 300k, and the tone pots are 100k? If I were to replace them with 500k pots, would that dramatically impact the tone/output of the pickups?

 

[rlapid]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

After looking at this diagram and comparing it to the wiring in my Les Paul, it appears that the pickups have indeed been wired incorrectly. I plan on drawing a schematic to illustrate how they are currently hooked up, but for now I will try to describe the wiring as succinctly as possible.

Both pickups are 4-conductor
Bridge pickup (JB):
-Red/white wires are tied together and not soldered to anything
-Black wire is soldered to bottom lug of bridge volume pot
-Green and bare wires are soldered to bottom of bridge tone pot*

Neck pickup (59b):
-Red wire soldered to the middle lug of bridge volume pot*
-White wire soldered to middle lug of neck volume pot*
-Green wire soldered to bottom of neck volume pot
-Black wire soldered to grounding plate*
-Bare wire is not soldered to anything*

The connections above that are followed by an apostrophe (*) are the ones I believe have been wired incorrectly, according to the SD diagram. Can anyone else verify that the wiring is indeed faulty? Or is this some modified version of wiring that anyone knows of?

 

[DonP]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

That wiring isn't correct for a "traditional" setup. It's possible the person who did this might have been trying to do a spin-a-split or something. I suggest you correct the wiring first just to get back to normal in order to see if your guitar sounds good or not. Then you can decide if you don't like it what changes should be made.

-Green and bare wires are soldered to bottom of bridge tone pot*

I'm not sure if this is wrong. As long as the pot is grounded, this connection is fine.

Most of your issues are with the neck pickup being wired up wrong. Solder white and red together and tape over. Solder black to hot neck volume lug. Solder green and bare to ground. This assumes the wiring for the pickups is the only thing wrong with the wiring.

 

[rlapid]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

Thanks DonP. I figured the same. I will correct the wiring tomorrow to 'traditional' spec and see what happens.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

After looking at this diagram and comparing it to the wiring in my Les Paul, it appears that the pickups have indeed been wired incorrectly. I plan on drawing a schematic to illustrate how they are currently hooked up, but for now I will try to describe the wiring as succinctly as possible.

Both pickups are 4-conductor
Bridge pickup (JB):
-Red/white wires are tied together and not soldered to anything
-Black wire is soldered to bottom lug of bridge volume pot
-Green and bare wires are soldered to bottom of bridge tone pot*

Neck pickup (59b):
-Red wire soldered to the middle lug of bridge volume pot*
-White wire soldered to middle lug of neck volume pot*
-Green wire soldered to bottom of neck volume pot
-Black wire soldered to grounding plate*
-Bare wire is not soldered to anything*

The connections above that are followed by an apostrophe (*) are the ones I believe have been wired incorrectly, according to the SD diagram. Can anyone else verify that the wiring is indeed faulty? Or is this some modified version of wiring that anyone knows of?

You are correct.

But the green and bare wires of the JB can be soldered to the back of the tone pot as long as the vol pot is also grounded to the tone pot.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

There you go. Let us know if that gets you to where you want to be.

 

[rlapid]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

Thanks again everyone. Time to break out the soldering iron and get to work...

 

[rlapid]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

Update: I have re-soldered the problem connections and double-checked all the wiring per SD diagram and a couple others I found online and I am happy to say the guitar now sounds like it should. The '59 no longer overpowers the JB and sounds MUCH sweeter. Now I just need to fiddle around with pickup and pole heights to find that 'sweet spot'. I am also looking into upgrading the stock 100k tone pots to 500k. This forum is awesome, thanks everyone for all the input!

 

[dilver]

Re: Output/tone from JB + 59 in Gibson Les Paul

I have a '93 LP Studio Lite - I did the following "upgrades"
- SD Pearly Gates neck, DiMarzio 36th Anniversary PAF bridge
- 500K CTS audio taper pots for tone; RS Guitarworks Superpots 500K for volume
- Mojo Tone Vitamin T capacitors
- TonePros locking bridge and tailpiece
- '50's wiring scheme
- Sperzel locking tuners
- Cream plastics/gold knobs

I felt like the electronic upgrades made a big difference - I can only describe it as "clearer", as if I have a wider range of frequencies to play with. I can't attribute the tonal improvement to any single one of the upgrades; mostly likely it's a combination of all. But I will say the 50's wiring scheme is pretty widely accepted as a positive change and most people feel that the 300K and 100K pots "choke" the tone. I'd recommend the pot upgrades, for sure.

These are great guitars that are Gibson's best kept secret. Some people get bothered by the "Chromyte" (Balsa) core, but it's such a small amount compared to what I see in the pictures of "chambered" Les Paul x-rays. The pickups are a sign of the times (early '90's) and aren't for everyone - although the 500T is a killer pickup for metal. And the black hardware isn't to my taste, but overall, LP Studio Lites are a great "base" for upgrades - better than current LP Studios IMHO.

I'm fortunate enough to have a lot of nice guitars - this is my current favorite, and I always get compliments of "wow - that guitar sounds great". Congrats!