P-Rail and HB split coil help

[riksplace]

OK...(both pickups Seymour Duncans...of course)

1st question...I just installed a P-Rail in the neck and I have a HB in the bridge. I have a push/pull Volume pot. A 3-way Gibson-type selector switch. No Tone pot. I want the P-90 side of the P-Rail to be the "default"(push/pull switch IN) output of the pickup and both coils of the HB to be the "default". Then if I pull the switch out I want the both coils of both pickups hot. In other words I only want to split the P-Rail. How would I wire this? There are no diagrams for such situation. (so....switch IN I can select Bridge HB or Neck P-90....switch OUT I can select Bridge HB or P-Rail with both coils active)

2nd question...on P-Rail which colors are the P-90 side and which are the Rail side?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P-Rail and HB split coil help

The bridge humbucker is not connected to the p/p switch. The following wires from the P-Rails are connected to only one side of the p/p.

The black wire of the P-Rails goes to the 3 way switch, the red + white wires (connected together) go to the middle lug of the p/p. The green and silver wires of the P-Rails go to a ground (back of pot). Solder a wire from the bottom lug (farthest away from the pot) of the p/p to ground.

When the p/p is in the down/default position, the red and white wires are connected to ground shorting out the rail coil...only the P-90 coil is active.

When the p/p is up, the red and white wires are connected to each other (isolated from ground) thus connecting the P-90 coil to the Rail coil in series (full humbucker mode).

The black and white wires are from the P-90 coil. The red and green are from the Rail coil. The silver/plain wire is a ground from the baseplate.

 

[riksplace]

Re: P-Rail and HB split coil help

The bridge humbucker is not connected to the p/p switch. The following wires from the P-Rails are connected to only one side of the p/p.

The black wire of the P-Rails goes to the 3 way switch, the red + white wires (connected together) go to the middle lug of the p/p. The green and silver wires of the P-Rails go to a ground (back of pot). Solder a wire from the bottom lug (farthest away from the pot) of the p/p to ground.

When the p/p is in the down/default position, the red and white wires are connected to ground shorting out the rail coil...only the P-90 coil is active.

When the p/p is up, the red and white wires are connected to each other (isolated from ground) thus connecting the P-90 coil to the Rail coil in series (full humbucker mode).

The black and white wires are from the P-90 coil. The red and green are from the Rail coil. The silver/plain wire is a ground from the baseplate.

PERFECT !!......Thank you VERY much

 

[riksplace]

Re: P-Rail and HB split coil help

The bridge humbucker is not connected to the p/p switch. The following wires from the P-Rails are connected to only one side of the p/p.

The black wire of the P-Rails goes to the 3 way switch, the red + white wires (connected together) go to the middle lug of the p/p. The green and silver wires of the P-Rails go to a ground (back of pot). Solder a wire from the bottom lug (farthest away from the pot) of the p/p to ground.

When the p/p is in the down/default position, the red and white wires are connected to ground shorting out the rail coil...only the P-90 coil is active.

When the p/p is up, the red and white wires are connected to each other (isolated from ground) thus connecting the P-90 coil to the Rail coil in series (full humbucker mode).

The black and white wires are from the P-90 coil. The red and green are from the Rail coil. The silver/plain wire is a ground from the baseplate.

Got my guitar wired and it works perfectly wired as you instructed. If you have time I would like to try and wrap my head around WHY I'm wiring it this way and not just following what you said blindly.

I understand about not having the bridge pickup connected to the push/pull since I want it to never be split. I understand how the push/pull volume pot works itself....I think. The pot itself works just like a normal volume pot. Left to right you have ....signal in....signal out....and ground. When the knob is pushed IN you are connecting the middle lugs and the lugs nearest the normal pot. When pulled out you are connected the middle lugs and the lugs furthest out. Both left and right side of those 6 lugs are independent (double pole).

So with my configuration..... I have the two coils tied together in series by combining the red and white wires. The black is the signal and the green and bare are the grounds. With the knob pulled OUT this connects the red and white (both coils...humbucking) on the middle row of lugs to the ground on the outside row of lugs. This gives me the pickup in humbucking mode. Because everything is tied together and connected to ground.

But with the knob IN it is connecting the 2 tied together coils (red and white wires) on the middle lugs....to NOTHING on the inner lugs. THIS IS WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND.....why does this position get the signal JUST from the outer coil (white wire). The red and white are tied together. It just doesn't make sense to me. I'm sure it's a simple explanation that for some reason I'm just oblivious to.

 

[jeremy]

Re: P-Rail and HB split coil help

when you ground the red/white you are only getting one coil. when the red/white is connected to nothing, you are getting the series connection

 

[riksplace]

Re: P-Rail and HB split coil help

Thank you....I am learning that today. If the red white was connected to hot instead of ground I would get JUST the OTHER coil......right?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P-Rail and HB split coil help

Thank you....I am learning that today. If the red white was connected to hot instead of ground I would get JUST the OTHER coil......right?

That is correct.

 

[riksplace]

Re: P-Rail and HB split coil help

Thank you.....learning....even at an old age....lol

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P-Rail and HB split coil help

When the knob is pushed IN you are connecting the middle lugs and the lugs nearest the normal pot. When pulled out you are connected the middle lugs and the lugs furthest out.

Actually, you got that backwards...when pushed in you connect the middle poles with the "throws" farthest away from the pot. When you pull the knob up, you connect the poles to the throws closest to the pot.

Both left and right side of those 6 lugs are independent (double pole).

Yes. The DPDT switch is like having two totally independent SPDT switches next to each other.

So with my configuration..... I have the two coils tied together in series by combining the red and white wires. The black is the signal and the green and bare are the grounds. With the knob pulled OUT this connects the red and white (both coils...humbucking) on the middle row of lugs to the ground on the outside row of lugs. This gives me the pickup in humbucking mode. Because everything is tied together and connected to ground.

But with the knob IN it is connecting the 2 tied together coils (red and white wires) on the middle lugs....to NOTHING on the inner lugs. THIS IS WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND.....why does this position get the signal JUST from the outer coil (white wire). The red and white are tied together. It just doesn't make sense to me. I'm sure it's a simple explanation that for some reason I'm just oblivious to.

OK, you got this backwards too. When the switch is IN, you are connecting the middle "pole" (with the red and white wires) to the "throw" farthest away from the pot with a ground wire attached. This shunts the output wire of the rail coil (red) to ground. The input (green) wire is already to ground, thus the rail coil is totally removed from the circuit by being grounded out. You are also shunting the input wire (white) of the P-90 coil to ground completing the circuit of the P-90 coil (from ground through the white wire, through the P-90 coil, through the black wire, and eventually to the amp). So with the switch IN you get only the P-90 coil playing, just as you wanted (rail coil is grounded out).

Now when you pull the knob UP, you connect the middle "pole" of the p/p (with the white and red wires attached) to a "throw" (next to the pot) where there is nothing attached, thus the circuit now travels from ground through the green wire, through the rail coil, through the red wire, through the attached white wire, through the P-90 coil, then through the black wire eventually to the amp. So now you have both coils connected in series, one right after the other, just as you wanted. This is commonly referred to as humbucker mode, although when the coils are in parallel the pup is also in humbucker mode.

Does this start to make more sense now?

 

[riksplace]

Re: P-Rail and HB split coil help

Absolutely makes sense. I realized as I've been reading all afternoon and re-reading what I originally posted that I had some things backwards. I have them correct in reality but had them backward in the way I wrote it. I can follow wiring diagrams but this was not really diagramed anywhere. But I also wanted to understand WHY I'm doing this and doing that...not just following a diagram.

Thank you SO much for all the lengthy help and explanation....I'm starting to understand.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P-Rail and HB split coil help

Probably not as old as I am. Even old dogs can learn new tricks.