P-Rails HSH configuration and wiring- is this possible and/or a bad idea?

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BurntGerbil

New member
Hey all. I ordered a Warmoth body that I’m planning to use for a do-it-all, extra versatile guitar. The Hs are going to be P-Rails w/ Triple Shots with the neck pickup flipped. I haven’t picked the single coil yet, so suggestions would be appreciated.

The guitar will have 3 knobs and a blade selector. The selector would work just like a Strat, except the 3rd/middle position will select the bridge/neck combo. So, humbuckers aside, it’s effectively just a Strat with a Tele middle position.

Since I don’t plan on being able to use the middle pickup by itself, I’m wanting 2 volume knobs (each controlling a dedicated P Rail) and a master tone knob. Here’s a quick scribble of my plan in case it’s more clear than the written description:

8-C5-F967-F-F361-4939-A23-D-DC82384-C9-D95.jpg

So, my questions would be:

1) Are there any technical problems that would arise from not having any sort of volume control attached to a pickup?
2) Will having a volume pot on the P-Rail be sufficient for controlling volume in the 2 and 4 ‘in-between’ positions with a middle that’s wide open?
3) Bonus question: Any recommendations for the middle single coil or even just some tips on how to choose one?

Thanks in advance to all
 
You say youre ysing triple shots, but I dont get the part about the neck pickup being flipped. Its going to be difficult to flip the magnet in a P-Rail, and just wiring it in backwards opens up a whole new can of worms.

Other than that, a few questions then I should be able to come up with a circuit:

1. Which pickups / combinations in which switch positions (full list please)?
2. Are you open to the idea of a five-way superswitch?
3. Which volume pot will you use to control the middle on its own?
4. Confirm V1 = Bridge volume, V2 = neck volume, master tone.
 
ThreeChordWonder said:
You say youre ysing triple shots, but I dont get the part about the neck pickup being flipped. Its going to be difficult to flip the magnet in a P-Rail, and just wiring it in backwards opens up a whole new can of worms.
Click to expand...

I don't think he said anything about flipping the magnet or wiring it in backwards. I think he, like many others, just wants to get a slightly thicker tone from the rail coil by flipping the pup. Magnets and wiring just stay as is.
And, actually, there are two magnets in the P-Rail pup and they are just as easy to change as in any other pup. I do it all the time in my P-Rail pups.

I think he must already be using a superswitch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can get bridge + neck in position 3 with a regular 5-way.
 
Last edited:
BurntGerbil said:
Hey all. I ordered a Warmoth body that I’m planning to use for a do-it-all, extra versatile guitar. The Hs are going to be P-Rails w/ Triple Shots with the neck pickup flipped. I haven’t picked the single coil yet, so suggestions would be appreciated.

The guitar will have 3 knobs and a blade selector. The selector would work just like a Strat, except the 3rd/middle position will select the bridge/neck combo. So, humbuckers aside, it’s effectively just a Strat with a Tele middle position.

Since I don’t plan on being able to use the middle pickup by itself, I’m wanting 2 volume knobs (each controlling a dedicated P Rail) and a master tone knob. Here’s a quick scribble of my plan in case it’s more clear than the written description:



So, my questions would be:

1) Are there any technical problems that would arise from not having any sort of volume control attached to a pickup?
2) Will having a volume pot on the P-Rail be sufficient for controlling volume in the 2 and 4 ‘in-between’ positions with a middle that’s wide open?
3) Bonus question: Any recommendations for the middle single coil or even just some tips on how to choose one?

Thanks in advance to all
Click to expand...

1) I don't think there are any "technical" problems, but there could be a dramatic volume problem when you are switching positions or playing in positions 2 and 4. I think you'd be better off with a Hot Rails for the middle pup with a dedicated vol for the HR and a master vol and tone.

2) Could be some dramatic balance problems.

3) Hot Rails if you have a separate vol pot for it. Or Cool Rails w/o it's own vol pot.

Suggestion: Flipping the neck pup will give you slightly thicker sound to the neck rail coil. But you'll notice a very significant difference by flipping the bridge pup, with the rail coil closer to the bridge. This won't change the P-90 coil tone at all but will give a much brighter tone to the rail coil. I find that when the bridge P-Rail is in the "normal" position (P-90 closer to the bridge) there isn't a lot of difference between the two coils. By flipping it the difference is dramatic. The rail coil may be tonally brighter but also may need a bit of an output boost to keep up with the P-90 coil. I solve this by putting an A8 (or possibly an A9) magnet next to the rail coil and either leave the A5 mag next to the P-90 or replace it with an A4.
 
GuitarDoc said:
I don't think he said anything about flipping the magnet or wiring it in backwards. I think he, like many others, just wants to get a slightly thicker tone from the rail coil by flipping the pup. Magnets and wiring just stay as is.
And, actually, there are two magnets in the P-Rail pup and they are just as easy to change as in any other pup. I do it all the time in my P-Rail pups.

I think he must already be using a superswitch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can get bridge + neck in position 3 with a regular 5-way.
Click to expand...

I still don't get what you two mean by "flipping the pup", but never mind. If he's wiring it in via a Triple Shot, with the usual hot / ground connections on the "downstream" ends, it really doesn't matter.

And there are dozens if ways of wiring a regular 5-way. It all depends what you want in all five positions that determines whether you need a superswitch or not.
 
ThreeChordWonder said:
I still don't get what you two mean by "flipping the pup", but never mind. If he's wiring it in via a Triple Shot, with the usual hot / ground connections on the "downstream" ends, it really doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

Just rotating it 180 degrees, so rail coil is closer to the neck rather than the P-90.

ThreeChordWonder said:
And there are dozens if ways of wiring a regular 5-way. It all depends what you want in all five positions that determines whether you need a superswitch or not.
Click to expand...

Right. But in this case, what he wants is bridge + neck in position #3 with the other 4 positions as in a regular Strat?
Can you show me a diagram where you can get that with a regular 5-way switch?
 
Last edited:
GuitarDoc said:
Just rotating it 180 degrees, so rail coil is closer to the neck rather than the P-90.
Click to expand...

Got it.

QUOTE=GuitarDoc;n6185163

Right. But in this case, what he wants is bridge + neck in position #3 with the other 4 positions as in a regular Strat?
Can you show me a diagram where you can get that with a regular 5-way switch?
[/QUOTE]

Nope :D
 
I encourage everyone to try everything.. it's amazing how many cool things you can find by accident..

One of the things I learned along the way is I like some mismatched positions.. when you get lower volume positions they are often brighter and respond well if you dig in really hard for thick rhythms.. then when you jump back onto another full volume position, it's kind of like you hit a boost pedal.

In fact, the only thing I think I regret is not trying combinations when I could have tried them.. I'll definitely flip p rails the next time I've got one..
 
No problem I can see. And since the middle pickup is only being used in conjunction with the others, I'd probably stick with a regular singlecoil myself, for maximum brightness and better distinction from the other positions.
 
Thanks all for the replies. I’ll try and touch on the questions/suggestions.

Better written description of my ideal positions (1 = furthest towards the bridge, 5 = towards neck):
  1. bridge
  2. bridge + mid
  3. bridge + neck (parallel)
  4. neck + mid
  5. neck
Vol1 - Bridge
Vol2 - Neck
Tone - Master

As GuitarDoc correctly surmised, calling the neck P-Rails “rotated” would have been a more accurate than “reversed.” You can see my sad attempt at illustrating it in the diagram. Having the rail at the top looks like it may be closer to the Strat neck pup position, but I may change my mind when I try it. For the suggestion of rotating the bridge as well, I’ll probable give it a shot once I have all of the parts, too.

It may be worth mentioning that my ultimate goal is to Frankenstein my way to a Paul Reed Smith DGT (with some added pickup flexibility), but with middle pup for the Strat neck/middle sound- that’s the only sound I REALLY miss when playing my DGT.

I’m pretty attached to a dedicated volume pot for each of the P-Rails. If not having a volume pot on the middle is going to create a crazy mismatch (taking into consideration that it will never be running it by itself), I’d look into other options. I’ve considered a concentric pot for the Tone control, but that seems annoying.

My leading candidate for a change would honestly be to tie the neck volume (V2 on the diagram) to also control the middle, use a 4-position switch, and drop the bridge/middle position entirely. Would be a little bit of a bummer, but the “2” position is more of a bonus than a goal of the build. Also, if this was to somehow alleviate the wiring concerns that have been voiced, I’d be willing to designate this as Plan A.

Im not opposed to to a super switch, per se. I’d prefer to keep it simple, but I’d definitely entertain the possibility.
 
I'm pretty sure you'll need some type of super switch to get that middle position.

You could try adding a resistor to the middle pickup to better balance the volume as you won't be wiring it to any volune pot.
 
You can reverse the neck and bridge connections depending on how you orient the switch in the guitar. The neck hot should connect to the bridge-side terminal, and vice-versa.
 
And, I suppose it would be more intuitive to make the bridge connection on the bridge side. Both ways work.

Half-Superswitch-02.png
 
playas- That’s a good idea. I was planning to mess around with the pickup height to try and balance the volume a bit, but I’ll definitely experiment with that, too.

ArtieToo- THANK YOU!! Those diagrams are perfect and actually kind of make sense to me (a rare occurrence for me and any sort of wiring diagram).
 
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