P-Rails questions

[davidp158]

After watching the P-Rails demo video on the Seymour Duncan site, they appear to have the same problem as other split-able humbuckers - a significant drop in volume and overly thin tone in single coil mode. I played a Grosh guitar with a Fralin Unbucker bridge and 2 single coils (not sure what brand/model single coil pickups), and although the humbucking mode wasn't the greatest, the split to single coil was surprisingly good, and matched up very well with the 2 single coil pickups. Every other split humbucker I've tried required too much amp gain and EQ tweaking to be usable at gigs. I'd love to be able to use all modes of the P-Rails without having to feel my tone and volume is compromised in the single coil mode.

A few people have commented that the P-Rails have some extra bass, but aren't muddy. This is very apparent in the demo video, but I never rely on videos like this to evaluate tone. I thought the tones in the video were muddy and very "scratchy" sounding. Not the kind of P-90 or single coil tones I'd ever use.

BTW, I generally prefer single coil pickups, but like the option to have humbucker tones. I also don't play with a tone of distortion.

While I wouldn't expect a split humbucker to retain the same volume level, it seems the P-Rails design might offer some improvement. The idea of parallel/P-90/single coil combinations is very intriguing.

Does anyone have any sound clips (dry, no effects, no distortion) of the P-Rails?

thanks,
Dave

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: P-Rails questions

If you're after a more vintage P.A.F. sound from the Humbucker, then Rails/Parallel/P90 offers the closest match between the three modes, much closer in volume than the demo video, which is series humbucker. Being that the P-Rails in series would appeal to the schizophrenic guitarist, the output differences are nearly exactly in line with what would happen if you took off your Strat, grabbed your LP Junior, then took that off and grabbed a PRS with hot pickups, etc. But in parallel the three modes are far more similar.

At the very least, if you ignored the Rails tone and just went parallel/P90 the output is very compatible. Those two modes do in fact "fix" the age old coil split output drop problem. But absolutely look for an output drop to the Rails by themselves. There is some range to drop the P90 poles slightly below the surface of the pickup, so you could fine tune the balance that way if you wish, but the placement of the P90 poles from the factory is consistent with location of P90 poles under a plastic cover. They're protruding from the actual coil a bit.

 

[davidp158]

Re: P-Rails questions

Thanks for the reply. I really need the 3 modes to be balanced to each other. As I use single coil pickups most, I want to set my amp for a great single coil tone, and have it work for humbuckers, too. Using an external clean boost or EQ to beef up the single coil mode to match the output of the other modes would probably increase noise level too much. What about a passive wiring scheme that would lower the output of the humbucking mode to match the single coil mode?

FWIW, the Fralin Unbucker's single coil mode uses a hotter single coil, to minimize the drop in volume. The downside is that the humbucker mode isn't a true humbucker, as the two coils aren't matched. I think the humbucker tone and noise cancellation suffers a bit, but the balance between the two modes is surprisingly good. When I saw an ad for the P-Rails, I hoped Seymour Duncan had finally nailed the humbucker/single coil problem. I think pickup builders may have to prioritize the single coil mode, and THEN add humbucker tones, to come up with a pickup that will do what I'm after. Probably too much to ask for....

If you're after a more vintage P.A.F. sound from the Humbucker, then Rails/Parallel/P90 offers the closest match between the three modes, much closer in volume than the demo video, which is series humbucker. Being that the P-Rails in series would appeal to the schizophrenic guitarist, the output differences are nearly exactly in line with what would happen if you took off your Strat, grabbed your LP Junior, then took that off and grabbed a PRS with hot pickups, etc. But in parallel the three modes are far more similar.

At the very least, if you ignored the Rails tone and just went parallel/P90 the output is very compatible. Those two modes do in fact "fix" the age old coil split output drop problem. But absolutely look for an output drop to the Rails by themselves. There is some range to drop the P90 poles slightly below the surface of the pickup, so you could fine tune the balance that way if you wish, but the placement of the P90 poles from the factory is consistent with location of P90 poles under a plastic cover. They're protruding from the actual coil a bit.

 

[Sludgenutz]

Re: P-Rails questions

Could be there be some way of installing a trim pot in the control cavity to the control the second (series wired humbucker) coil? Granted, it would not work for a parallel humbucker mode, but a trim pot (and a treble bleed mod?) to attenuate the total overall HB volume might be a possibility?

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Re: P-Rails questions

Surely you'd want the humbucking mode to be hotter than the split mode?

 

[Sludgenutz]

Re: P-Rails questions

Surely you'd want the humbucking mode to be hotter than the split mode?

The man has stated what he requires. "Hot" has as much to do with EQ, as it does total perceived volume.

 

[davidp158]

Re: P-Rails questions

Surely you'd want the humbucking mode to be hotter than the split mode?

Having one mode hotter than the others is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I want all modes to have the same dynamic range, but typical split humbucker pickups can't do this. The humbucker mode always overpowers the single coil mode. If the guitar amp is EQ'd to favor the split mode, lowering the guitar's volume control when in humbucker mode turns the tone to mud.

Ideally, I'd like to switch from one mode to any other and hear ONLY a tonal difference. Combined with separate volume and tone controls for each pickup, this would give me the widest range of tonal options, as the modes would be balanced between each other.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: P-Rails questions

That's about what you can expect when switching from P90 to Parallel Humbucking mode. Those two modes are very compatible with regard to actual output and perceived output when you consider the tonal shift. P90 to Series Humbucker definitely makes the HB mode louder and stronger, but to less of a degree than standard HB's or even "unbuckers"

 

[chase]

Re: P-Rails questions

This isn't a realistic request. A series humbucker will ALWAYS sound louder than its split mode, because you're essentially changing from two pickups to one and cutting the output in half. You can compensate for this somewhat by unbalancing the pickups, but only somewhat and it will compromise the sound of the humbucker. You're fighting the laws of physics.

Listen to Frank and try parallel humbucking mode, or just get used to using your volume knob...

 

[chase]

Re: P-Rails questions

Actually, there's one other possibility, you could wire your guitar to send some of the signal to ground when you flip into humbucking mode, but it'd be easier to just use the volume knob.

 

[GrooveHT]

Re: P-Rails questions

I think Ibanez has a Tru-Duo pickup or something of that nature...you can tap it and go from side-by-side humbucker to stacked single coil humbucker. I bet you could do funny things with a design like that, in terms of wrapping the stacked coil.

 

[praisegeetarman]

Re: P-Rails questions

This isn't a realistic request. A series humbucker will ALWAYS sound louder than its split mode, because you're essentially changing from two pickups to one and cutting the output in half. You can compensate for this somewhat by unbalancing the pickups, but only somewhat and it will compromise the sound of the humbucker. You're fighting the laws of physics.


I have a wiring option that I find very useful. I have an option to choose two humbuckers in series and then I put the neck pickup out of phase. The phasing takes the excessive bass out and leaves a really hot, high in harmonics tone that doesn't overpower the preamp. It is a very cool hendricks type sound, but really has a lot to do with how the two pickups interact. It works really well with a Duncan tele hot stack in the bridge and a PRS vintage bass in the neck. I also have the option to split the neck humbucker to sort of add or subract bass as well as a mini-switch to put the bridge in series/single/parrallel. This is done on a Warmoth thinline tele using a 4-way mod switch, two push/pull pots with a on/on/on mini-switch in between them. It's a very versatile (<- spelling?) guitar.

Keith