P90 vs. strat/tele SC

ginormous

ginormous

Understatmentologist
Can anyone with experience tell me the difference between the basic Fender style single coil, and the Gibson P90?

Does the larger winding give a hotter output, and what are the essential differences in tone?

I'm considering a possible design, and I want to go in a slightly different direction.
 
Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

I dont know much about the technicality of the wind but tonewise a P90 has more mids and usually is bigger sounding. That isn't to say smaller scs are bad. They are just different. Smaller SCs tend to be brighter and woodier, more hollow sounding I guess.

I don't really know how to describe it but a P90 is like a nice mix of sc and hb. You really have to play one to see if it'll do the trick for you. I know people that hate P90s but then I know other people who swear by them and that's all they use. Just have to try and see for yourself. :)

EDIT: BTW If you have a humbucker guitar you could buy a used GFS Mean 90 for $25 shipped, they are on the trading post quite often and they give a pretty decent sounding P90 tone. It's not all the way there but it will definitely give you the flavor of it and if you don't like it then you'll know you won't like P90s.
 
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Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

P90's are built like humbuckers with a metal baseplate, coil, adjustable poles and two opposing magnets under the coil. They are nowhere near as bright as Fender style single coils and they have a warm, thick and vocal tone. Since their poles aren't magnets the magnetic field is more spread out and pick response is more like a humbucker than a Fender style single coil.

sp903.jpg
 
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Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

ginormous said:
Can anyone with experience tell me the difference between the basic Fender style single coil, and the Gibson P90?

Does the larger winding give a hotter output, and what are the essential differences in tone?

I'm considering a possible design, and I want to go in a slightly different direction.
Click to expand...

No, the big difference is that the P90 has passive polepieces and then magnets on the bottom. That is a huge sound changer. It mellows out the sound considerably compared to rod magnets that just do what you tell them.
 
Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

The shape of a coil matters a lot as well. P-90 wind is nothing like a humbucker or single coil! Short, but really wide. It's part of why they are noisier, but it also gives them their frequency response.

Magnet poles vs screw polepieces also have an impact, and the two magnets reinforcing the same polepiece is a pretty big deal as well.

It's all the elements that shape things, not just one. I've heard single coils constructed like a P-90, but with SC coil shape, and they just aren't the same beast, though there are some similarities.

P-90 coil with rod magnets is different as well, though not as common.
 
Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

I hope this helps.


 
Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

Despair said:
The shape of a coil matters a lot as well. P-90 wind is nothing like a humbucker or single coil! Short, but really wide. It's part of why they are noisier, but it also gives them their frequency response.
Click to expand...
How can I quiet down the noise? I've heard of a Bill Lawrence arrangement with (I think) some kind of a transformer or coil, possibly an LC filter, going to ground.

I'm looking for something quiet enough to track in the studio, but decent output for stage.
 
Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

Most humbucking P90's suck and they don't sound much like P90's at all. Most people who use P90's don't complain much about the noise. Part of the reason is the darker tone doesn't accentuate the noise as much as brighter single coils. P90's are closer to humbuckers in terms of output and frequency spread is wider so output isn't as large a factor as with a Fender style single with a narrow frequency range.
 
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Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

idsnowdog said:
Most humbucking P90's suck and they don't sound much like P90's at all. Most people who use them don't complain much about the noise. Part of the reason is the darker tone doesn't accentuate the noise as much as brighter single coils.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've noticed that there is slightly more noise with P90s but with reg SCs the noise comes out easier.

My main guitar has P90s and I don't record in the studio or anything but even when I crank my amp up the noise isn't all that bad. In a band situation no one would notice or care anyway. When I saw Trower his single coils hummed but you could really only hear it between songs and it didn't detract from the performance. I wouldn't worry about the noise too much.
 
Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

Look into a P-rails set. Those have a P90 and an SC built in. You could go back and fourth between those all day! What I want to know is how SC and P90 sound together!
 
Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

On a simplistic level, the Stratocaster single coil has the narrowest bobbin of the three and the brightest/clearest/thinnest sound. The Telecaster has a wider coil, made using a different gauge of wire and gives a sound with more output and more midrange. The P90 has a wider coil again, two bar magnets and a metal baseplate. This was Gibson's main pickup prior to the introduction of their humbucker. It remains my personal favourite Gibson design. It somehow manages to combine elements of my favourite Gibson and Fender guitar sounds.

Another way to do this is the G&L Magnetic Field Design (MFD) pickups.

Perhaps, the most straightforward way to retain true single coil tone and reduce noise is to use a noise gate device. The more parameter controls, the better.
 
Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

A typical P90 is fat and huge compared to a typical traditional Fender style. Both coil and magnetic field of the P90 are much wider (even with the same # of turns) so it sees the low freq's much more than a Strat or Tele rod mag.

There's no stopping the noise, you just have to learn the right angle to stand during the gig to minimize the effect of the spotlights or bad wiring or whatever. It's like bullfighting, sometimes you can dodge it, sometimes you get gored. Okay, most of the time you get gored, but you get the idea. But the sound is wonderful enough to put up with that buzz.
 
Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

A good noise gate or hum/noise supressor can help considerably, but they can be frustrating to deal with. May need dialing in for each environment (or change in environment, like neon lighting coming on), if you want to maximize sustain (or minimize note chopoff if it's set too aggressively).

For high gain playing with noise vulnerable pickups, that may be the only option. I've used Rocktron's digital HUSH before with impressive results. Their Guitar Silencer looks like an analog implementation of the two control version that I found handy for trickier noise reduction.

I wonder how much the edge-shielded covers some manufacturers are using help. Full shielding tends to dull things a bit, a partial shield might reduce noise with less impact on tone.
 
Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

Would an induction coil help minimize noise and hum? I'd like to design a passive circuit to manage the problem before getting involved with noise gates.
 
Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

ginormous said:
Would an induction coil help minimize noise and hum? I'd like to design a passive circuit to manage the problem before getting involved with noise gates.
Click to expand...

A "blind coil" works the same way as a stack, except you can use full size magnets and full length polepieces.

So far so good but induction, resistance and capacitance of the blind coil are still added (or subtracted) and you need to manager that.
 
Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

bluesbend said:
I hope this helps.


Click to expand...

that has got to be by far the worst and most meaningless comparison clip I have ever heard in my entire life.According to this yahoo's demo, the P90 and the single have one thing in common- they both suck.
 
Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

uOpt said:
No, the big difference is that the P90 has passive polepieces and then magnets on the bottom. That is a huge sound changer. It mellows out the sound considerably compared to rod magnets that just do what you tell them.
Click to expand...

Lots of cheap Fender pups are bulit like that too, with ceramic bars on the bottom
 
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Re: P90 vs. strat/tele SC

Now you've got me wondering what a P90 with two ceramics (or maybe one ceramic and one A8 to fill I'm the mids and roll off the high end a bit) would sound like.
 
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