PAF questions

Z

z*z*z

New member
Hello, Im a long time lurker and this is the topic thats been bugging me for a while - Im satisfied owner of older Edwards Les Paul that came with SD vintage blues set ('59 SH-1n + b) and generally these pickups are very versatile and they sound great, live and for recording, but recently Ive tried Antiquity set in my LP and it blew me away - 3D sound, string separation, note bloom and complex mids, and volume/tone sensitivity... Ive honestly thought that all shebang about PAF replicas, boutique or mainstream, is a matter of... C**k sniffing ;) So, Ive been bitten with a PAF bug. When recording, the difference is not that big, its in details - but live... Its just on another level. So my questions are:
Is it just Ants or is it same complexity with other PAF replicas - Pearly Gates, Seth Lover, BK Mules, Whizz, Throbak, Stephen Design, Winehams...
Does that complexity can be achieved with magnet swap?
Im thinking A2 or A4, since Im very into vintage type music and tone, playing mostly plugged straight into '69 Fender Deluxe Reverb.
Since Im from part of the world that PAF replicas are scarce and YT demoes dont do justice, and as I stated, main diference is live, not recorded - Im trying to get some info from exp. users :)
 
Re: PAF questions

i have a bunch of paf type pups but the antiquitys do seem to have some magic in them. not everyone loves the aged magnets but im a fan.
 
Re: PAF questions

The ants are nice. But duncan doesn't necessarily go the whole hog in replicating the details of the PAF. There are elements of the wind patterns and the coil offsets that are important to getting the tone.

Of course the guys who have done the most to get every element right tend to charge a lot more too.....due to the effort required to do special batches of the right materials. But there are some who get enough of the specs right without going the whole hog. Vineham is very affordable. Zhangbucker has great prices too, as do Tyson Tone and Sigil. I'd think all of these would come in at or lower than Antiquities prices

Duncan has their own take on the tone of course. And there is no right and wrong here when you add in your own likes. But there is also no way you can possibly describe the tone of pickups nor hear the fine details nor the feel as you play with a good amp. You simply have to take a chance and order.
The good thing about small winders is they will take pickups back from anywhere in the world and rewind them if you're not happy (I've had that happen a couple of times) and Duncan has their USA exchange program.
 
Re: PAF questions

z*z*z said:
Hello, Im a long time lurker and this is the topic thats been bugging me for a while - Im satisfied owner of older Edwards Les Paul that came with SD vintage blues set ('59 SH-1n + b) and generally these pickups are very versatile and they sound great, live and for recording, but recently Ive tried Antiquity set in my LP and it blew me away - 3D sound, string separation, note bloom and complex mids, and volume/tone sensitivity... Ive honestly thought that all shebang about PAF replicas, boutique or mainstream, is a matter of... C**k sniffing ;) So, Ive been bitten with a PAF bug. When recording, the difference is not that big, its in details - but live... Its just on another level. So my questions are:
Is it just Ants or is it same complexity with other PAF replicas - Pearly Gates, Seth Lover, BK Mules, Whizz, Throbak, Stephen Design, Winehams...
Does that complexity can be achieved with magnet swap?
Im thinking A2 or A4, since Im very into vintage type music and tone, playing mostly plugged straight into '69 Fender Deluxe Reverb.
Since Im from part of the world that PAF replicas are scarce and YT demoes dont do justice, and as I stated, main diference is live, not recorded - Im trying to get some info from exp. users :)
Click to expand...

People blow things waaaaay out of proportion, and think that $500 pickups will make them sound like Page, Clapton or Billy Gibbons when what they really need is more practice, but having said that, the Antiquities and the Seth Lovers are especially accurate in that they lack wax potting, which will effect the microphonic qualities of a pickup.

The Seth Lovers sound great. I've never felt I was lacking authentic PAF tone with them, they nail the tone you hear in all those classic PAF recordings, be it jazz or classic rock.
 
Re: PAF questions

I have real ones. They sound great. That said, anybody who's not happy with any good PAF-ish pickup in a good guitar into a great amp probably has no idea what they really want.
 
Re: PAF questions

I am serious. I have a set of ants and I would always consider other ant pickups before anything else.

If you play loud live get potted pickups. The verdict is still out on any tonal differences between potted and not.

I made the mistake of getting an unpotted HB and that guitar is now strictly a low volume practice guitar now. Squeals too much at band volumes.
 
Re: PAF questions

Is it just Ants or is it same complexity with other PAF replicas - Pearly Gates, Seth Lover, BK Mules, Whizz, Throbak, Stephen Design, Winehams...
Does that complexity can be achieved with magnet swap?
Click to expand...

No, swapping a magnet is not enough to change a generic P.A.F. replica in an Antiquity IME: the related microphonic quality is largely a question of unpotted coils, as mentioned above.
But yes, sometimes, a magnet can do wonders by "awakening" an unpotted humbucker...
Now it's also the case with other parts: keeper bars, slugs and screws of different alloys (plated or not), coils (of course) and/or covers can transcend or degrade the tone of a transducer as well. so a mag swap is not necessarily the only mod to consider.

Anyway,I agree with AlexR when he says that "Duncan have their own take on the tone". All the other brands mentioned above have also something to offer as P.A.F. replicas when it comes to tonal "complexity" but with a slightly different character. The question is to decide if this "something" will/would bond with your ears and gear. There's no predefined answer, IMHO. So, if you find the Ants pleasant, just go for them...

Good luck in your quest!
 
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Re: PAF questions

Antiquities certainly have something special going on. Maybe it is the degaussed magnets, maybe it is the fact that they aren't potted. Or something else that I don't know about. They sound wonderful though, and for cleaner styles where you don't have to be crazy loud (with maybe just amp overdrive), they are really special. I haven't heard any magnet swap in a regular production SD pickup that sounds like them.
 
Re: PAF questions

Thanks guys for your honest opinions, I do have a clearer picture. Also Id like to add that Ive heard in person potted Ants and unpotted, and potted are somewhat slightly muted as in lack that upper midrange harmonics, only by 10-15% but its audible enough; and the overall 3D tone and complexity is still there. And basically with magnet swap Ill just change the general EQ of 59, but Ill like the idea of roughcast and unoriented magnets.
 
Re: PAF questions

the Antiquities and the Seth Lovers are especially accurate in that they lack wax potting, which will effect the microphonic qualities of a pickup.
Click to expand...

there is an excellent breakdown of the internals of a Seth set and an Ant hum set shown HERE



in case anything happens to the pics at that link, here they are:


Seth Lover set

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02%20Wj0GUDm_zpsfgbrayqh.jpg

03%20gkq3AdR_zps2xsyhf6c.jpg

04%20bdsUSDY_zpsfad5plhf.jpg




Antiquity humbucker set

Ant%2001%20eW8asMz_zps8pnlvddc.jpg

Ant%2002%20OnxKQGj_zpsupaupfun.jpg

Ant%2003%20xs1Nr3j_zpsbbxgpvb4.jpg

Ant%2004%20TKxO7Me_zpsrxuieocw.jpg
 
Re: PAF questions

Mincer said:
...and for cleaner styles where you don't have to be crazy loud (with maybe just amp overdrive)...
Click to expand...

I played my LP/SG with my Super Reverb on 10 yesterday. It was absurdly loud and plenty crunchy, with no squeal unless I turned on a drive pedal. I no longer fear unpotted pickups and volume :)
 
Re: PAF questions

Antiquities are great pickups in general and for years were my go to pickup.

They have a lot of character and to them and no that can not be gotten on other pickups with just a simple magnet swap.

All this said as true PAF replicas they are lacking in many areas, at least for me. Antiquities are a very stylized, idealized interpretation of a PAF by a winder that was interested in creating a very specific tone he heard in his own head.

I say that because if you go down the PAF rabbit hole you won't find many (maybe any!) other pickups that sound like Antiquities from other winders.

Also worth mentioning you are in Europe and one of the best PAF clone winders in as well...check out www.wizz-pickups.net for some great pickups.
 
Re: PAF questions

Thanks everybody for answers and a lot of info - it helped me lot to get the general idea... And a new thread ;)
 
Re: PAF questions

z*z*z said:
Ive honestly thought that all shebang about PAF replicas, boutique or mainstream, is a matter of... C**k sniffing ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's funny hearing dudes actually try for the first time gear/concepts that they passed off as "Corquesniffing"... only to be blown away. :knockedou
 
Re: PAF questions

z*z*z said:
So my questions are:
Is it just Ants or is it same complexity with other PAF replicas - Pearly Gates, Seth Lover, BK Mules, Whizz, Throbak, Stephen Design, Winehams...
Does that complexity can be achieved with magnet swap?
Click to expand...

All PAFs sound slightly different. Old ones sound different by haphazard accident in construction. Newer ones sound different by deliberate decision to follow one or the other idiosyncratic characteristic of the old ones.

Magnets aren't so much about complexity as 'power' or 'strength' and EQ of the resulting sound. They can affect a little bit of complexity, e.g. when going from polished to roughcast seems to affect subtle details of the top-end and middle range of sound.

FWIW - I've found unpotted humbuckers don't squeal if you stay out of the cone of the speakers.
 
Re: PAF questions

JB_From_Hell said:
I played my LP/SG with my Super Reverb on 10 yesterday. It was absurdly loud and plenty crunchy, with no squeal unless I turned on a drive pedal. I no longer fear unpotted pickups and volume :)
Click to expand...

Love to hear this! (and actually hear this).
 
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